Player Features and Ideas Discussion

All,

Many of you know I am one of the biggest proponents to keep ECM as it is unless a non-chance based, balanced and effective alternative come up. I think today may be the day... If not back to the drawing board.

We need to lay some ground rules for this discussion. What I am going to do shortly is propose a solution to fix some of the more annoying aspects of ECM. Before that can happen and so this discussion can be successful we need to assume/agree on certain things:
First off: There is nothing wrong with ECM currently. This isn't up for discussion. It is fair, balanced, and most certainly not OP. Again, this is not up for discussion. For this idea to work we need to agree to this. If you don't believe me take a look at some numbers: Link
Next: There is a distinction between ECM and a ECM fit Falcon. ECM is base module that is rarely seen outside of an ECM bonused ship. A falcon is one of the most common ECM bonused ships in use. For this discussion we will talk about both separately.

Alright: y'all ready?

So if ECM has nothing wrong with it why would I propose changing it at all? The answer to that one is there are a lot of things that factor in to ECM that are at best... annoying. So what I am trying to do is propose a solution that improves ECM in several ways to reduce/remove these annoyances and bring ECM more in line with the other forms of EWAR.

So how does ECM differ from Sensor Damps or Tracking disruptors currently? Let's see:
ECM has four modules to do while SDs and TDs only have one. ex: there are 4 racial jammers, but no racial SDs or TDs.
ECM does not have scripts. SDs and TDs do.
ECM has signal distortion amplifiers that buff jam strength. SDs and TDs do not.
ECM has a chance to hit and a non-trivial chance to miss. SDs and TDs always hit.


So what kind of solution am I proposing? Here is the goal of the solution: non-chance based, balanced, and effective. The issue plaguing ECM up until now was there was no granularity in its effect. When a TD hits it takes away a percentage of the targets tracking or optimal range. When it came to ECM you couldn't really subtract 4/5ths of a target. So instead of ECM jamming your targets away for 20 seconds what if ECM jammed away your targets for a variable amount of time depending on the quality of your ships sensors?

What are the details of the change?
First: ECM mods become non-racial. One mod does all the jamming. Now to gain back that racial bonus they have racial scripts.
Next: Remove Signal distortion amps. SDs and TDs don't have them and ECM won't need them.
Then: Buff the ECM module, while simultaneously nerfing the Falcon's ECM strength bonus to half of its current strength.
And then: Change ECM cycle time to 25 or 30 seconds.
Finally: ECM loses its chance based hit. SDs and TD never miss so ECM shouldn't either.

So the new equation for how long you are jammed is (ECM mod jam strength)*(ECM mod jam strength/the ships sensor strength). Again ECM will never miss. So we can't have it be jamming you for 20 seconds guaranteed. This change is designed to shift the penalty from being jammed away from being unable to lock and more towards the lock time of your ships + a proportional jam time. This combined with extension of the ECM mod cycle time will mean even a frigate will have a few seconds of being able to do something before the next cycle.

So I did a quick google docs for you all to see the math behind this. Hopefully it can give you an idea of the effectiveness of the changes: Link

Now why would a falcon pilot want this change to go through despite the nerf to the jam time? I am a falcon pilot. These changes will benefit falcons pilots everywhere. First you don't have to fit one of each racial mod to be effective anymore. This means you can fit an actual tank. Next, you will always hit. No more chance game. The penalty for having no more chance game is that you take a hit in effectiveness. So you can stay on field and you are guaranteed to be effective. That is a pretty sweet deal.

Now why would I want these changes to go through if I am going against a Falcon pilot? You are only jammed proportionally to your ships sensor strength. No more being jammed in a BS then dealing with another 10+ seconds of lock time. You get knock out of the fight for a few seconds and then you can rejoin. Yes, it will happen more frequently, but it is a less devastating effect. And even a frigate pilot will have a few seconds to lock and attack every cycle which means no more permajam. Who wouldn't like that to go away?

Why is the ECM mod being buffed while the falcon isn't being nerfed according to your numbers? I want the ECM mod to be like a TP, SD, or TD: It is effective even on an unbonused ship. Now, it isn't Falcon effective but it still makes an impact on the battlefield.

Your numbers seem kinda weak. 7 second jam time on tempest isn't very effective...? Remember, with the guaranteed jam they are going to have to lock the target a lot more. It averages out nicely and is kind of intuitive. A BS should have better sensors so it should have less time jammed than a far less sensor filled rifter. This means a rifter is jammed longer, but can lock quicker while a tempest is jammed for less time but has a longer lock time.

Alright, what now?
Do not get caught up on the numbers. They are more to illustrate how it would work. CCP will balance the numbers to make things fair. Instead talk about the mechanics and mod changes. Should ECM be changed this way? Does this do a sufficient job reworking ECM?

I have friends often try and sell me on racial jammers. I stick with multispectrals. So knowing that, I like ECM as is. I gain nothing by losing racial jammers as I have no need for them.

ECM ships have reduced combat capabilities as far as damage goes. They have no real tank outside of the jamming unless they opt to give up even more damage/tank from low slot use.

As a caldari pilot I speak on behalf of the falcon in particular. Shield slots are ecm slots and dps slots are armor tanking and ecm strength slots.

A more balanced proposal is to ask for pure dps boats to accept giving up slots for backup sensor arrays or eccm. Not asking for ECM pilots to be made a worthless option so dps boats have to do neither.

Racial jammers quite honestly are very impractical. 6 multispectrals with a maxed ecm pilot are so much more versatile and prepared to brave unknown combat situations. The only time racial jammers are worthwhile is when you know what you are going to face.

I suppose 1 of each racial and two multispectrals could be marginally useful but i'd still prefer a falcon with 6 multispectrals, likely three to a target in worse case and 6 to one target in the best.

So currently when you get jammed your max locked targets drop to 0, which for the victim feels always very frustrating and annoying not being able to do anything. That feeling of being ripped off of your own ships ability to target is what annoys the most.

So what if the jamming just affected your ships sensor strength? It initially breaks all the targets (or not?) and then causes your locking time to grow up to 10x. This would affect differently from the current ecm mechanics and not cause nearly as much frustration and annoyance and still accomplish almost same job. Of course various attributes would need to get play tested and fine tuned for it to remain balanced with the other forms of ewar.

1. Your entire post can be summarised in 1 sentence: "target is always jammed, just not for the entire cycle". That's hardly a new idea.


2. Someone has already pointed out that this makes perma-jamming much easier by simply staggering the activation of the ECM modules.


3. You started by saying that there's nothing wrong with ECM, but then went on to list a bunch of problems. Make your mind up.

Sorry for being so negative, but I don't think this would be a good change. Personally I would prefer to see ECM reduced to a lock breaking effect that always hits once every X seconds, where X is determined by the ratio of jam to sensor strength. It would be weak as **** on it's own, but very strong when supported by sensor damps (which are just ecm by another name in my opinion).

The problem is that this would be very OP for non-ecm ships as a way to break points/scrams.

I like the idea but I just hate the thought of some kiting ship that I catch in scram range jamming me even for a second in order to activate MWD again and either escape of reestablish range control. Evena short range ship could use it to great effect just as an escape tool.

Heck, with this, what would even be the point of core stabilizers.

one way to solve this (in keeping with original idea) might be to have something like 'residual jamming' where if a point is released/broken by ecm, it stays in effect for another short while.

ECM should not jam lock on as whole but simply reduce the amount of locks are possible.

Lets say

T1 ECM, reduce between 1-5 lock ons
T2 ECM, between 2-6
Faction, 3-6
Officer/Wh, 4-7

Still Chance based on Sensor strength.

So you need more Moduls and lose more Slots if you want to be sure.

Why? Using 2 Moduls with a Falcon is likely 100% jammed, maybe even permajammed.
Which my Idea needs 2-3 Moduls for the same result but isnt anymore failproof like the current state.

The problem is that that was assuming the target is an instalocking loki with infinite sensor strength or something close to it. If you want to totally incapacitate a standard Scimi (which has an ECCM), lets assume a base Jam strength of 15, you get
Jam Length 6 seconds (5.62, but EVE rounds up)
Relocking time on a Cruiser 3 seconds (2.6 but again EVE rounds up)

So 3 Jams keeps the Scimi guaranteed permanently jammed. So each falcon incapacitates 2 Logi and has a spare Jammer for breaking tackle on itself (which, by the way, is another reason why guaranteed jams are bad. Initial tackle will never hold again.)

Bump. Still looking for more feedback.

You propose an interesting base mechanic change.

However as other posters have pointed out the on off nature of ECM creates a problem with instant easy target breaking.

I could see this working if ECM was changed to disabling all high slot modules rather than breaking lock. This allows the weapons/RR disruption to take place without disabling midslot E-War.

It would affect your calculations based around ships relocking though.