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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#101 - 2013-08-31 10:59:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Perhaps you'd like to argue that the activity is deserving of 130m/hr?

Considering other activities make more isk/hour for less cost. Perhaps you'd like to argue why it isn't?


Name one and I'll explain why it's not the same.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
There's a 50/50 risk of the loot fairy saying "screw you pirate scum", taking costs, and the chance of the loot fairy being nasty into account, the income is at best 65 million per person per hour,


Drop rate was already accounted for, 130m/hr.

Quote:
the same as blitzing level 4 missions which carry a far smaller risk.


Significantly less than blitzing missions and with significantly less risk. An efficient missioner is going to spend about as much on ammo as a freighter ganker does on cats, and stands to lose 1b+ when they **** up.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#102 - 2013-08-31 11:02:11 UTC
S Byerley wrote:


Significantly less than blitzing missions and with significantly less risk. An efficient missioner is going to spend about as much on ammo as a freighter ganker does on cats, and stands to lose 1b+ when they **** up.


Hmmm, considering I can fly a T2 Domi for under 200 mil and be efficient.......you do not stand to lose a bil. You are simply trolling now.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#103 - 2013-08-31 11:02:45 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
S Byerley wrote:


Significantly less than blitzing missions and with significantly less risk. An efficient missioner is going to spend about as much on ammo as a freighter ganker does on cats, and stands to lose 1b+ when they **** up.


Hmmm, considering I can fly a T2 Domi for under 200 mil and be efficient.......you do not stand to lose a bil. You are simply trolling now.


Oh, and no ammo. Just sentries.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#104 - 2013-08-31 11:03:28 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Because they actually know what they are doing? Lmfao.


RF loses freighters just like everyone else; they don't show up on kill boards because only the admins are actually in the corp. Plastic wrap does tend to be less attractive though.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2013-08-31 11:04:43 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Matari Akiga wrote:
If the value of the expected drop is less than it would cost to gank the freighter then unless you have offended someone personally they are not likely to gank you it does not make financial sense.


One might rightly question what the hold of a freighter is supposed be filled with when they're still profitable to gank loaded with trit.


Off all the ways to make isk in EVE freighter ganking is one of the worst.
Of all the interesting things to do in EVE freighter ganking is one of the least fun.
You have to find a bunch of other people willing to wait around for hours to find one worth ganking.

So poor isk/hour
low fun
involves herding a bunch of people with low boredom thresholds.

= almost no one does this

and almost all the ones that do pick the low hanging fruit (autopiloters) or the loot pinata (5+ bill cargo).

i also heard a rumour that jump freighters can jump out if a cyno alt is ready for them.

Please please stop making this same thread over and over.

If it were a real problem red frog wouldn't move my stuff so cheaply.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#106 - 2013-08-31 11:05:41 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Because they actually know what they are doing? Lmfao.


RF loses freighters just like everyone else; they don't show up on kill boards because only the admins are actually in the corp. Plastic wrap does tend to be less attractive though.


Then you just solved your problem. Double wrap your items with a courier contract alt.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Dave Stark
#107 - 2013-08-31 11:05:41 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Name one and I'll explain why it's not the same.

no, explain to me why ganking freighters should be worth less than other activities that involve less cost? please, i'm interested in why we should negatively change an already sub par way of making isk.

i'm intrigued as to why making something worse is a good idea even though it's clearly not out of line in any way.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#108 - 2013-08-31 11:05:46 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Hmmm, considering I can fly a T2 Domi for under 200 mil and be efficient.......you do not stand to lose a bil. You are simply trolling now.


You blitz missions in a MJD domi? How's that working out for you? ISK/hr wise.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#109 - 2013-08-31 11:08:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
S Byerley wrote:


Drop rate was already accounted for, 130m/hr.

Quote:
the same as blitzing level 4 missions which carry a far smaller risk.


Significantly less than blitzing missions and with significantly less risk. An efficient missioner is going to spend about as much on ammo as a freighter ganker does on cats, and stands to lose 1b+ when they **** up.

Fair enough, 130million/hr, blitzing level 4 missions still carries less risk than suicide ganking, if you lose a 1 billion isk ship to NPCs that's your own fault.

65million is an average, some people claim to be able to earn 100m/hr+ by blitzing. I run 4's in a BC because I dislike BS's, I also loot and salvage, even though I don't cherry pick and mission in an inefficient manner 40+ million an hour is easy. If I was blitzing the most lucrative missions in a 1 billion isk ship, and subcontracting the cleanup to Prosynergy, I would expect to pull in somewhere in the region of 80 to 100 million isk + the income from the loot and salvage, less Prosynergy's cut.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2013-08-31 11:09:22 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?


Can you name an alt corporation that actually does this, because I don't know of any.

Last I heard Goons were at 500 billion in losses for around 5 trillion in profits from their high sec ganking. Slight imbalance there.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#111 - 2013-08-31 11:11:40 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?


Can you name an alt corporation that actually does this, because I don't know of any.

Last I heard Goons were at 500 billion in losses for around 5 trillion in profits from their high sec ganking. Slight imbalance there.


And yet the miner who mines 5 trillion isk worth of minerals has had 0 isk in losses.

I think there's a slight imbalance there, too.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#112 - 2013-08-31 11:13:18 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Hmmm, considering I can fly a T2 Domi for under 200 mil and be efficient.......you do not stand to lose a bil. You are simply trolling now.


You blitz missions in a MJD domi? How's that working out for you? ISK/hr wise.


Well, considering I will only run missions if I absolutely have to, I do just fine. Point is, what you are saying is irrelevant. A billion isk ship is not necessary to run missions efficiently. Knowing how to pilot a ship makes the missioning effective. So minimal risk vs. 45+ an hour blitzing, and significantly more if I choose to farm only the most lucrative missions across a couple of constellations. It's called thinking outside the narrow view that you cannot seem to escape from.









Here. I will place the tear jar down here. Fill it up as you see fit.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#113 - 2013-08-31 11:13:45 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Last I heard Goons were at 500 billion in losses for around 5 trillion in profits from their high sec ganking. Slight imbalance there.
A 10:1 ROI for a carefully chosen application of ships and skills? Seems fairly reasonable.
Then again, they don't indiscriminately gank freighters every 20 minutes, so they don't really qualify regardless.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#114 - 2013-08-31 11:14:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Last I heard Goons were at 500 billion in losses for around 5 trillion in profits from their high sec ganking. Slight imbalance there.
So Goons have 90% efficiency on suicide ganks? Impressive.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#115 - 2013-08-31 11:16:49 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?


Can you name an alt corporation that actually does this, because I don't know of any.

Last I heard Goons were at 500 billion in losses for around 5 trillion in profits from their high sec ganking. Slight imbalance there.


You heard wrong. 5 trillion in kills is not 5 trillion in profits.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#116 - 2013-08-31 11:17:51 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
bring enough noobships and ganking anything costs you 0.


I stipulated with a reasonable number of people; I also assumed you understood profit/person is the relevant figure.

Quote:
just because various groups can muster the number of pilots required to a larger number of lower dps ships doesn't mean freighters need to be changed.


Is getting 30 people to warp and hit F1 supposed to be an impressive feat?

Quote:
actually my counter argument was simply asking you what it was that you're trying to fix, since nothing is broken and in need of a fix.


How much do you think a freighter should carry? I've seen a lot of people say ~2b.

That works out to ~130m/hr/person for high sec pvp with low investment(both sp and ISK) and low/no risk.

Perhaps you'd like to argue that the activity is deserving of 130m/hr?


#1 - if you gank a freighter with 2bil in it, the average drop is 1bil, the minimal drop is 0. if the freighter has 1 pile in it, the average drop won't happen, the drop will be a dice roll on nil or full, and such things can streak nil..

#2 - destroyer ganks need to bump the freighter away from the gate guns. I had a thrasher shoot a frigate of mine once, and the thrasher was vaporized before I even reacted. ie even if you do make 130m, you will be stuffing around for some time to make it happen. (waiting assembled for right target, scout account, bumping time).

#3 - many people just fly to jita, when jita may well be on the other side of niarja or uedama. Sometimes you can in fact sort your logistics out so that you do not need to fly through the choke systems (ie my freighter typically flies 2 jumps).

#4 - a max cargo viator full of 425mm railguns is very hard to intercept outside of null or badly chosen stations, aligns and warps quickly and carries a surprising amount of minerals. ie for some scales of tasks, its an option, and it can also move higher value stuff, so not all your eggs are in your freighter basket. orca can do similar if you need to extract from a station that has danger.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#117 - 2013-08-31 11:19:05 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Then again, they don't indiscriminately gank freighters every 20 minutes, so they don't really qualify regardless.


They do when they feel like it? Too much ISK makes people pursue more varied activities.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#118 - 2013-08-31 11:19:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Tauranon wrote:

#1 - if you gank a freighter with 2bil in it, the average drop is 1bil, the minimal drop is 0. if the freighter has 1 pile in it, the average drop won't happen, the drop will be a dice roll on nil or full, and such things can streak nil..

#2 - destroyer ganks need to bump the freighter away from the gate guns. I had a thrasher shoot a frigate of mine once, and the thrasher was vaporized before I even reacted. ie even if you do make 130m, you will be stuffing around for some time to make it happen. (waiting assembled for right target, scout account, bumping time).

#3 - many people just fly to jita, when jita may well be on the other side of niarja or uedama. Sometimes you can in fact sort your logistics out so that you do not need to fly through the choke systems (ie my freighter typically flies 2 jumps).

#4 - a max cargo viator full of 425mm railguns is very hard to intercept outside of null or badly chosen stations, aligns and warps quickly and carries a surprising amount of minerals. ie for some scales of tasks, its an option, and it can also move higher value stuff, so not all your eggs are in your freighter basket. orca can do similar if you need to extract from a station that has danger.

Thought and effort, both of which are foreign to a lot of players

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-08-31 11:21:21 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Then again, they don't indiscriminately gank freighters every 20 minutes, so they don't really qualify regardless.


They do when they feel like it? Too much ISK makes people pursue more varied activities.


You are yet to name anyone that actually ganks freighters every 20 minutes.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#120 - 2013-08-31 11:22:00 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Tauranon wrote:

#1 - if you gank a freighter with 2bil in it, the average drop is 1bil, the minimal drop is 0. if the freighter has 1 pile in it, the average drop won't happen, the drop will be a dice roll on nil or full, and such things can streak nil..

#2 - destroyer ganks need to bump the freighter away from the gate guns. I had a thrasher shoot a frigate of mine once, and the thrasher was vaporized before I even reacted. ie even if you do make 130m, you will be stuffing around for some time to make it happen. (waiting assembled for right target, scout account, bumping time).

#3 - many people just fly to jita, when jita may well be on the other side of niarja or uedama. Sometimes you can in fact sort your logistics out so that you do not need to fly through the choke systems (ie my freighter typically flies 2 jumps).

#4 - a max cargo viator full of 425mm railguns is very hard to intercept outside of null or badly chosen stations, aligns and warps quickly and carries a surprising amount of minerals. ie for some scales of tasks, its an option, and it can also move higher value stuff, so not all your eggs are in your freighter basket. orca can do similar if you need to extract from a station that has danger.

Thought and effort, both of which are foreign to a lot of players


No kidding, we have literally spent quite some time bombarding logic in this direction. Logic Hardeners must be trained to V.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.