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Peace is Boring

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#381 - 2013-08-30 20:08:53 UTC
TIL Lyris Nairn is the GSF forum posting backbone.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#382 - 2013-08-30 20:31:55 UTC
Joepopo wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Joepopo wrote:
Just popping to remind all that the CFC is a big ball of blues.

Our empire in null sec is the most stable, most safe place in all 0.0.

TNT has the record for the longest sov and Goonswarm has been in deklein for close to 4 years now.

This is why the CFC rental program is the best available in all 0.0. There is nowhere in space where exploration is as safe and profitable as here.



But, but...

... War?


We weren't invaded lately. I have no idea what war could prevent our renter from doing their business in our sovereign space.

If you are refering about high sec logistic and people declaring war to pop us in jita, we have a group of dedicated people in NPC corp taking care of all of this.



Jita is a cesspool, and to be avoided at all costs.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#383 - 2013-08-30 20:37:55 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
There needs to be another war soon. Peace makes for little reason to log in but to amass space money. Having the spoils of war is great, and everyone appreciates them; but, most of the fun in this curiously excellent spaceship sandbox is in the actual taking rather than in the having.



Soooo go pick a fight. Attack a blue. Preferably one right next door. No need to worry about power projection, supply lines, hot drops... just all out brawl it down and see what happens.

That should be exciting.

Me, personally? Attack a blue? Awoxing doesn't do it for me. Neither does taking a day trip into nearby space. I have addressed this point several times in the thread. My complaint is not the lack of dudes to shoot, it is the lack of a dedicated campaign to consistently shoot a particular group of them and take their stuff. Small gangs and roaming ~wulfpax~ are not appealing at all to me.



Well, you mentioned an invasion, you mentioned a lack of prolonged content through combating for sovereignety (spelling)...

Your neighbors are ripe for just such a thing. Why on earth would you stand for "allies" in a game of conquest?

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#384 - 2013-08-30 20:38:42 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:

ganking me with a hauler, thats something new, looking forward to that
You mean like the hauler that provided the tackle on your 2xWCS Cov-ops loss?


you are not even on the killboard dude, maybe start playing, and your friend is even worse, 10 solo kills in 4 yeras, lol, i beat you both in the first first month

Ad hominem is not appealing. What does it matter if he is on a killboard or not? That doesn't change the truth or falsehood of his statements. Whether he is or is not on a killboard, you were nonetheless tackled by a hauler and killed. Own it. And before you try to go all ad hominem on me, if you really wanna turn this into a pissing contest I had several times more kills in the month of July than you have had in your entire history. So listen up! Ad hominem is a fallacy for a reason. Attack the argument, not the person making it.



I like this guy!

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#385 - 2013-08-30 20:39:21 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Don't you have your own forums that might be viewed by upper managment?

I mean there is nothing wrong telling GD, but I don't think it will acheive anything other than "Grrr Goons" posts.

I am curious as to why you think only one party (GSF) needs to be addressed here. There are numerous other entities who might choose to be the aggressor against GSF, which a post on our internal forums would not address.



Don't hedge....

If you want something, go get it! Start that war! GSF won't mind, they value the individual!

One person going out and "starting a war" does not create a war. It just creates a headache for others.



Perhaps. Every war has always been started by one guy.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#386 - 2013-08-30 20:41:13 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Osileon Yoshimeru wrote:
tldr:

Just make some mock wars. Im sure you can sacrifice a few supers.

You said it yourself how spoils of war is great and all. Do some fleet training and burn some of that isk off while you wait for next war. You can try out new tactics and stuff you weren't really sure of doing during a real war.

We could probably organize some intra-CFC brawls, but they would necessarily be limited in scope and size. Neither side of a mock war would want to fully escalate, because doing so depletes real assets which might at any time need to be marshaled against a real aggressor. You can understand why this is not an attractive option.



Fully commit. Reset coalition. No "blues". You are goonswarm, act like it.

Merely having potential targets does not make a war campaign.



Well, it does for some. The campaign could have a goal that appeals to everyone involved. I mean seriously... what lineman cares if you take the moons from fountain or not as long as their ship is replaced? Some people simply want chaos, to watch ships blow up, others want the ability to name the system themselves.

Some even like war simply so they can make up afterwards. Others might prefer a well oiled machine and want the fat trimmed off.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#387 - 2013-08-30 20:41:52 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:

I am presently doing something about it: multibox mining while playing other games, until the next war.



Is it an acceptable substitute?

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#388 - 2013-08-30 20:45:00 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Spergie Scrublord wrote:
The OP, a member of the most powerful alliance in the game - the one that openly and proudly scams, schemes, backstabs and does whatever it can at any opportunity - should truly go down in the history books as the best example ever of the worst case of EVE Online's First World Problems. S/he is no doubt here on the forums presenting her case to subtly prepare us for TheMittani's next big declaration of whatever he has planned. Just a hunch, because this overblown piece of ridiculous writing smells of -- something.


I am not an official source for Goonswarm, nor do I write for TMC, nor am I otherwise (to my knowledge) a mouthpiece. I would love for you to be right, though! To have some new offensive announced within the next few days would make me happy as a clam.

Quote:
If not, nay I suggest to the OP that making an alt and sending it to Syndicate, where it is constant war with no reasons needed, might relieve her boredom.

Hell, for a serious reality check, drop out of Goonswarm and play the game like the pubbies do. ***gaaaaaaasp***

You may not be aware, but GSF actually has a pretty good presence in Syndicate.



Meh, they'd hot dropped us over on moonies territory a few times, and we've hotdropped them.

The euro gsf's are pretty cool guys. They actually "gf" and and chat, not just sperg random memes and links.

Having led fleets in all time zones, I agree that Euro TZ is generally pretty civil.


Yea, it's strange at times how much different and diverse the same team could be. Almost like it's not "grr goons" or something =P

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#389 - 2013-08-30 20:46:00 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Sol Kal'orr wrote:
If you want a war, start a war.


I don't think I'm allowed to willfully start a diplomatic incident.



Who the hell is going to tell you no?

Are you a yesman?

I play EVE with goons. I wouldn't play EVE at all if I wasn't in Goonfleet/swarm/waffe/platoon. There are other games with other goon guilds that would be more fun than playing EVE without goons. So, yeah. I'm a company man, a yes man, whatever you want to call someone invested in a group.



Well to be honest it did maybe come off a bit strong... but I was feeding into your "goading a fight" mentality =P.

Nothing wrong with going with the tide however.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#390 - 2013-08-30 20:48:49 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:


Civil war would require there to be a cohesive faction within GSF or the CFC which is loyal to itself but disloyal to the whole. While such a faction is undoubtedly possible, I have not heard of it; moreover, if such a faction did exist it would have to be better than the best diplomatic and counterintelligence teams in the game at diplomacy and counterintelligence. That's a tall order. There arises an issue that the fledgling faction would most likely be snuffed out, its instigators and collaborators excised before it could develop into a large movement. Such an entity would have to materialize out of whole cloth, which is honestly unreasonable.



I think the renting direction is a good indicator.

Separate the sheep from the wolves. Fond out who was truly Goons when Goons were Goons.

And who are the isk whores.

Besides, what better entity than the GSF for such a "tall order"?

Most goons, including myself, were not "truly Goons when Goons were Goons." The entire argument between renting or not was pretty effectively silenced by some regdate elitism. And it's a good point: most of the people who were crying about "true goon" culture were not even playing the game back when goonfleet was founded. I personally have no opinion on the matter of renters. But we are going to do it, and so I support it.



Well, I like hypocrisy and the warm velvety embrace it can create when you see it for what it is (not calling you a hypocrite) and having the elitism show on public forums that call people NOT goons "pubbies" and then see them go from anti-renter to "oh **** we better do it or we're broke" has always been a feeling of mirth.

It's irony at it's best.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#391 - 2013-08-30 20:49:42 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Joepopo wrote:
Just popping to remind all that the CFC is a big ball of blues.

Our empire in null sec is the most stable, most safe place in all 0.0.

TNT has the record for the longest sov and Goonswarm has been in deklein for close to 4 years now.

This is why the CFC rental program is the best available in all 0.0. There is nowhere in space where exploration is as safe and profitable as here.

GSF and the CFC have some really great people who go to extensive lengths to maintain our space empire. You could not ask for a better friend or a more reasonable landlord.



Welllll..... I think your "marketing" department has tainted that notion to be fair.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#392 - 2013-08-30 20:53:02 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Andski wrote:
You're clearly not up to speed so let me help you get there: IT Alliance, the NC and SoCo all went down despite those things all existing and giving them what you seem to believe is an insurmountable advantage

All I know is that I'm not going to organize 10,000 people (many of which I can't stand) to lead a crusade in an internet spaceship game to defeat an opponent I am, for the most part, indifferent towards. Not unless somebody wants to pay me real currency.

Then you blatantly do not understand the mindset of people who lead alliances, coalitions, or fleets. Or for that matter, guilds, raids, platoons, or whatever other collective groups appear in other games. People like to lead, even when it is leading to do a thing they might not have a personal investment in, because being a leader is fun. Being able to look at a map, or a DPS chart, or a battle report, or an Arena Rating, or some purple pixels, or a flashy title over your elf's head, and say, "I did that," is nice. Being able to be provably good at your chosen hobby, to be able to laugh at scrubs like yourself and say, "hate me because I am better than you," and point to your dilz, is a great feeling that feeds the egos of people across all age groups and across all MMOs. Ask me about my 2v2 rating of 2300; ask me about my top lane Jax; ask me about my no scope 420 fps skills; ask me about how I led fleets for 12 hours a day for two months; and so on. These are things that people take pride in, even if they're not provably very good at it, because they like to think themselves better.

And other people are just altruistic. They do it because they know it will help the group. On my friend's minecraft server, I will log on for a couple of hours and just go exploring and mining then deposit a bunch of ore in a chest and log off. It's fun for me, because I know I am helping and that I am contributing to other people's fun whom I care about. I swapped my sleep schedule around from playing in USTZ to leading Siege Fleets in AUTZ, because I knew that our coalition was weak in that time zone and that I could help. I feel good about it. Getting some PLEX per month to keep me from having to stop leading fleets and go farm rats is a nice gesture, but it's nothing like the RMT salary you seem to think exists.

I wonder if perhaps you are Gevlon Goblin. Your lack of understanding of human motivations resembles him.


That's a lot of selfless acts for someone who just recently wasn't sure if you were "allowed" to do certain things.

I don't see the disconnect between being "selfless," and not wanting to do something I shouldn't.



It was more of your defining "leadership" and seeing the self serving implications of "I did that" that brought the comment.

Leaders don't usually want credit or need to be recognized. Others do their accolades for them. Leaders tend to do it because they know they can do it well, or do not trust others to do it for them.

Any Leader who leads for notoriety gets a quick lesson in humility.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#393 - 2013-08-30 20:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Khemax wrote:
I thought you guys were going to kill test off...as I see it test is still out there in numbers.

Make it your new war to not take tests systems but actually kill them off completely.
8k+ members is still loads fo targets to kill Twisted

Or if you want a real battle make it your task in life to kill off BL or PL (Sorry guys just the first names that came to mind)

Plenty of targets out there


War against BL or PL would be a pretty awesome thing. It will happen eventually, I am sure. I look forward to it.

But for now, killing TEST off is not really a campaign of the sort I am wanting. As they live in low sec and have no assets in space to defend, this amounts to camping an undock for hours on end without bubbles while carriers play station games. I understand that some folks in Empire find that sort of game play fun, e.g., the wardec corps that hound the Jita undock, but it is not something you mobilize a large coalition to do and field large fleets to accomplish. We could easily camp the undock with a few hundred dudes for a while, but TEST would have no incentive to undock and we would just be wasting each other's time for nothing. Real wars are fought when one or both sides have an incentive to fight, because they have something to lose or gain.



Are you picking your battles, or wanting someone else to pick them for you? Please make up your mind...

I've been pretty expressive in my statements that I am not interested in small scale things that I could reasonably do all by myself.



But it is also effectively talking yourself out of a fight. You don't get to speak for the person you want to destroy. They have their reasons for doing what they do, you have yours.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#394 - 2013-08-30 21:03:24 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
[quote=William Walker]
Yay mercs! I'd be looking forward to mass small gang roaming events and... uuuh... ran out of steam there. But mass small gang roaming still sounds like fun.


Why is it that after every major nullsec war there is a resurgence of people praising ~wulfpax~ on the forums?



Because they are fun. Not tidi grind fests of waiting for the lag to clear.

They are fun for you, perhaps. Small gang roaming has never interested me. There were plenty of small fights during the Fountain war, none of which were spawned because some dude wanted to take a day trip through the region. They all occurred because there was a war on, and the fighting entities had staging systems near enough to each other than whenever one side formed up a fleet to harass the other's assets it was in their interest to try and stop it. Fleets all day every day providing content for hundreds or thousands of people is not something that happens with ~wulfpax~ and small gangs who are roaming around for its own sake. They happen because there are assets to protect, objectives to achieve, and so on. In short, it happens because of a war.



Well, guerrilla tactics are successful and belong in war just as much as the siege machines do. Some prefer a more "instant gratification" but still contribute to the same cause.

Some prefer action, some prefer the supplying. There's a reason the Quartermaster Corps is worth being a part of during wartime.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#395 - 2013-08-30 21:05:34 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Khemax wrote:
I thought you guys were going to kill test off...as I see it test is still out there in numbers.

Make it your new war to not take tests systems but actually kill them off completely.
8k+ members is still loads fo targets to kill Twisted

Or if you want a real battle make it your task in life to kill off BL or PL (Sorry guys just the first names that came to mind)

Plenty of targets out there


The plan was to kick test out of fountain and take it for the cfc. Test might still have 8k members but they're spent right now. They barely put up a fight at their peak.


TEST is defeated. The number of EVE characters still in their EVE guild doesn't really mean anything.



Brings up a good point... what decided that? The simple loss of systems? That's not a war, that's just an operation. Like iraqi freedom.

If you want a WAR, pick up that dropped gauntlet and finish what you started.

It was decided that TEST was defeated when they publicly announced that they had lost the war; it was decided that TEST was defeated when they withdrew from both Fountain and Delve; it was decided that TEST was defeated when they withdrew from the theater and stopped showing up to fight us. We are no longer at war with TEST. The conflict is over. We may at some point in the future be at war with them again, but a simple look at the killboards for our respective alliances shows that we are no longer killing each other very much.



But saying "yes I ran away" is not the same as being destroyed. Or conquered. In theory you only took an objective and completed a battle. You seem to be more interested in a prolonged fight... not a quick end to a skirmish which is what Fountain was; a skirmish, a campaign. TEST still exists in name, and you need to define what "war" means if you want that prolonged fight or you just want to accomplish goals.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#396 - 2013-08-30 21:09:31 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:

Any Leader who leads for notoriety gets a quick lesson in humility.

Or stays leader by crushing all internal opposition, commandeering all available wealth and distracting their followers from their personal shortcomings/ ambitions by presenting external forces as a greater threat than themselves. Fear is power for some people.



In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#397 - 2013-08-30 21:15:09 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Seems Eve-O is back to screaming for someone (but not me, for erm, just someone, kk) to ruin the CFC's empire so they can leap around and pretend the schadenfreude they get from it is actual, meaningful happiness.

Or at least that's what I assume when someone makes over 30 posts about it in a day.



Uh oh... some internal strife?! Fight fight fight!

He was talking about you. What internal strife is there in him calling you out?



It's easy... I'm ignoring the jab because in truth, I don't care. I don't care if the cfc exists or not. As noted previously, I have had my run ins with goons and their ancilliary forces and wish no ill will towards anyone.

The "but not me, for erm, just someone, kk" would actually fit more as a jab at you since you were the one wishing for a war but not willing to act or commit to the action and instead presented a defensive stance.

By all means, please do not imply that because you were the one who opened the door, does not mean I cannot be the one to also step through.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#398 - 2013-08-30 21:16:58 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:

ganking me with a hauler, thats something new, looking forward to that
You mean like the hauler that provided the tackle on your 2xWCS Cov-ops loss?


you are not even on the killboard dude, maybe start playing, and your friend is even worse, 10 solo kills in 4 yeras, lol, i beat you both in the first first month

Ad hominem is not appealing. What does it matter if he is on a killboard or not? That doesn't change the truth or falsehood of his statements. Whether he is or is not on a killboard, you were nonetheless tackled by a hauler and killed. Own it. And before you try to go all ad hominem on me, if you really wanna turn this into a pissing contest I had several times more kills in the month of July than you have had in your entire history. So listen up! Ad hominem is a fallacy for a reason. Attack the argument, not the person making it.


5 lines, all of them boring



This is what makes me like this person =(

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#399 - 2013-08-30 21:23:27 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

Any Leader who leads for notoriety gets a quick lesson in humility.

Or stays leader by crushing all internal opposition, commandeering all available wealth and distracting their followers from their personal shortcomings/ ambitions by presenting external forces as a greater threat than themselves. Fear is power for some people.






Fear is also the biggest contributor to short life spans for all those involved.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#400 - 2013-08-30 22:59:28 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

Any Leader who leads for notoriety gets a quick lesson in humility.

Or stays leader by crushing all internal opposition, commandeering all available wealth and distracting their followers from their personal shortcomings/ ambitions by presenting external forces as a greater threat than themselves. Fear is power for some people.

The mittani sure frightened us with stories about how progodlegend and the killer N"exists to kill GSF"3 coalition will get us if we don't comply.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?