Intergalactic Summit

Better late than never. I hope you receive an answer.

Cpt. Stitcher, Scriptural theology isn't about mere 'interpretation' it's about exegesis - in contrast to eisegesis. As you do not mind to study the exegetical tradition of the Amarrian religion, a tradition in which the Scriptures were and are written and reworked, nor are interested in exegesis over the far broader approach of simple interpretation you do - as always when I read one of your 'interpretations on the Scriptures before - succumb to eisegesis.

As to (more importantly) Cpt. Surionen:

I merely have to say that it needs little to point out the wrongs of others, but to admit to others - and oneself - one's own failings is a true sign of strength of character and a much needed light flaming up to push back the dark and cold shades with it's warmth.

Be blessed in this endeavour.

-N. Mithra

Then again, that is hardly the point you raised. Whether or not you believe that interpretation of the story, easily just by reading the passage you could have been corrected. Esiegestic analysis aside, we are speaking about the passage without the context of the story it is in, much less a lengthy discussion of the Scriptures in general.

More to the point, your original point was that this passage means there is no place for redemption in our religion. There obviously is. In fact, you could read Amarrians making mistake after mistake and struggling for redemption. They are granted it. I turn your attention to the best known story of Epitoth, that of Amush-Akura himself. He despaired at God not offering him the use of his host of Sefrim and cast them angrily out of his presence. This, after the Amarr people had sided with Molok in distrusting the Sefrim. Yet the Amarr emperor and people redeemed themselves by defeating Molok according to God's command.

Certainly a well-known example of redemption.

I think the eisegestic analysis our friend points to is that you take opinions on what is said about our religion into account, but without conducting any research into our beliefs or doctrine. Which is far from uncommon, and something I have been trying to correct. All anyone seems to know about our religion is what is scripted onto our ships. Our Imperial Navy understandably tend to prefer the passages about crusading and moral justice. It's most of what anyone know about the actual Scriptures.

I would say, instead of saying what our religion is like as an uneducated observer, do ask questions. Some of us are more than willing to enlighten even when it seems you have no interest at all in the faith.

As you said, every journey begins with a single step. Even one where you are not completely sure where it leads.

Sorry for the off topic.
You appear to have some significant formal training in Hermeneutics, Ms. Mithra. If you don't mind me asking, where did you train?

Even if that is the case (which I acknowledge), you've not actually addressed the point I made so much as addressed a flaw in the way I made it.

I'm usually based from a Republic Fleet station in Gulfonodi, but the problem with that is a sense of occasional homesickness. There's a Kaalakiota station in Rokofur which I tend to overnight on when I want to be surrounded by a more Caldari environment. It's far from being the only Caldari station I know of in Republic space, but let's use it as an example.

Suppose there were some grievous threat to that station and the megacorp's employees aboard it. Would you consider it justifiable for the Caldari Navy and Home Guard to violate Republic borders in defense of them? The body of a megacorp does not stop at the State border: neither should custom, law or the authority of our executives. All who can rightfully claim their citizenship to one of the eight okusaika deserve to be represented and protected by the CEP.

It's not merely a flaw in how you made a point: It's that you tried to make a point about something, without knowing what it is and - even worse - misunderstanding what it is and basing your point on it.

I need to adress your point as little as a point made about a hippopotamus in a discussion about seahorses, even if it's made in the mistaken assumption that both are the same.

Cpt. Keng, I studied theology at Hedion Univeristy.

All that said, Cpt. Mintor got it quite right. I will refrain from further drailing this thread.

While we do - and should - hold Tribal identity above national identity, overall, that does not provide free license to do whatever we please. I will always consider the Sebiestor Tribe my "nation" despite where I live.

At the same time, we do have to understand that not everyone else operates under that same set of assumptions, and, if we expect them to respect our ways, we must return the favor. We do have to coexist with everyone else, peacefully if possible.

I am glad you studied, my friend. That is quite close to its original meaning. Remember that the story is based on a pair of brothers, one of whom was a general that saved thousands of lives and proved his faith, but then lived as a cruel master to his servants and kept all his money and things for himself. His brother was a poor shepherd, and did not take part in any battles. However, he often gave what little money he had to the temple, that they could feed the poor, and he treated his servants well.

The Lord tasked them to climb the greatest mountain on their planet in Missions. As they climbed, the mountain's face never seemed to end. The first brother began to despair, for the mountain's peak never seemed to come closer. It always seemed farther away. His brother simply climbed. Finally, the first brother stopped and gnashed his teeth at the Lord, asking why he was being punished after his past service.

Hence the passage's meaning. It was the younger brother whose task was more difficult, for he continued to uphold the faith his whole life. He knew the task was not to arrive at the summit, but to climb the mountain.

I do apologize if I have a tendency to bang on about the faith whenever it is brought up, but it is my specialist subject.

As far as Miss Ava's difficulty is concerned, I fear her pleas may fall on deaf ears. It is all too easy for pride to turn to hubris in the presence of power. Unfortunately, most do not realize their mistakes until they suffer harsh penalties. Pray that more reasonable voices prevail in the Republic before then, because we have seen the price of Matari victory. I fear defeat is beyond their ability to afford.

I can only say that to preach peace, she must not stop. It is all too easy to feel that it is easier to stop when it does not appear anyone is listening. Even if Shakor does not listen, enough may to avert disaster before it happens.

Such a shame that pretty much any attempt at reasonable discourse in this medium soon degenerates into personal attacks, overheated invective, flaming, trolling, thread derailment or e-peen waving.

If a bunch of supposedly educated "elite" professionals can't even speak civilly to one another, much less actually discuss controversial issues, I don't hold out much hope that we'll ever be able to sit together to work out our differences diplomatically.

If that's truly the case we may as well just drop the pretenses and get down to the business of setting these worlds alight. Let's get it over and done with. Maybe who or whatever comes after us will learn from our stupidity.