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[Summit] DUST 514 link

First post
Author
Ali Aras
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#1 - 2013-08-20 20:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Dolan
Here's our session to talk about DUST. Any comments or questions about the DUST link itt.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#2 - 2013-08-22 13:53:25 UTC
1. Break the link to EVE and Build a great shooter to rival eve and then look at conecting them up.

2. Play to your strengths - My dust friends are intrested in a shooter not the eve universe. I know this is what you sold the hype on and what got me excited but time to re-think and become a game developing company. I know if you build DUST like you built EVE there isnt a shooter out there that could compete

3. EVE will hold back Dust from becoming a great game. It has so many strengths that my FPS friends love but as they look at the game play and the link to eve they really dont have the same connection as us pod pilots.

4. Knowing the above is a reach for CCP but should happen. If the link remains then they need to have one combat planet per system. One collection point for us eve players. To take a past quote "One planet to rule them all"
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#3 - 2013-08-24 16:23:41 UTC
Like so many things in this game, the DUST/EVE link has so much wasted potential.

The first thing that needs to happen is that simply put, EVE players need to care about planetary conquest. The two rewards for districts (pos fuel and manufacturing time) mean practically nothing in the grand scheme of things and are not worth wasting time over.

The second thing that needs to happen is the linkage of the two economies. Full interaction is required before EVE and DUST players will integrate and work together.

DUST will be effectively a sideshow until these changes take place.
Rengerel en Distel
#4 - 2013-08-24 22:56:41 UTC
Get it on PC, so the people already playing your game will play it as well. Get the numbers up to 20k online at a time, and you might get more from the PS3 taking a look at it.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Opaque Intent
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-08-26 00:22:48 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
The first thing that needs to happen is that simply put, EVE players need to care about planetary conquest.


More precisely, all of Eve needs to care about what happens on the ground in Molden Heath. I believe the Dust devs have plans in their backlog to make planetary territories produce "stuff" that capsuleers want, so there's an economic interest in the region that can actually be spread throughout the cluster.

However, it's pointless to have people wanting to hire dusties to take over territories if they can't be paid. IMO, adjusting the isk economy between the two games is pretty risky, but an alternative exists: link the Aurum economies together with full AUR transfer between the games.

The exchange rate between Eve isk and Dust isk will be chaotic. The exchange rate between Eve Aurum (i.e. dollars) and Dust aurum (i.e. also dollars) will be much more stable.
Burseg Sardaukar
Free State Project
#6 - 2013-08-26 16:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Burseg Sardaukar
While the shooting game needs work, some of the skills need a hard look (5% per level reduction to pistol powergrid use when the thing only uses 2 pg?), the strength that Dust has over all other shooters is the existing EVE community. The connections to them need to be brought to the forefront, since it is the key to making Dust stand out from the MASSIVE crowd of shooters.

Limiting PC to Molden Heath, and having districts only able to be owned by corporations with Dust members is bad.
PC structure needs to be broadened:
- First off, open it up to the rest of Lowsec, and make the planetary bonuses apply throughout the system, at least until ALL the planets are able to be fought over.
- Bonuses need more looking into and orbital artillery needs to be implemented ASAP.
- EVE corporations should be allowed to own districts, even without Dust members in their corp.
- These corps should be able to create attack/defense contracts that are able to made available based on several criteria set by the issuing corp (W/L ratio, minimum payment, standings, average SP, etc). This can then be the primary means of transferring EVE ISK to Dust.
- District owners should be allowed to tax all PI facilities inside their control.
- District owners should be allowed to attack all PI facilities inside their control with quick, 1-life mini-matches, counter-strike bomb-arming style, with a cool down if the defender wins, just like PC battles. No reinforcement timer needed, let EVE players set auto-defense contracts open to blues and such to be scooped up automatically if their installations get attacked.

Direct interaction with Dust matches on the ground should be broadened:
- EVE players should be able to see the match progress when connected to a district
- EVE Industrials should be able to reinforce troops on the ground with more clones, even if the process leaves the ship vulnerable for several minutes while "deploying."
- EVE bombardments frequency needs to be based on something they are doing, not something the Dust guys are doing. Also, remove war barge precision strikes from PC and FW matches if there are no ships in orbit.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Opaque Intent
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-08-27 03:21:32 UTC
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:
- EVE bombardments frequency needs to be based on something they are doing, not something the Dust guys are doing. Also, remove war barge precision strikes from PC and FW matches if there are no ships in orbit.

Both these ideas are confirmed as under development already.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#8 - 2013-08-28 05:36:23 UTC
When do Dust Bunnies get to DDD ships in orbit? You promised us Skyfire Cannons, CCP ;)

When will I be able to manufacture stuff for my pet dust bunny, or send it pocket money?
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#9 - 2013-08-28 16:40:24 UTC
DUST needs to be part of the sov system.

It's basically the only way DUST will matter to EVE players enough for integration to work.

Orbital pilots need love.

Sitting over a district for twenty minutes, unable to hear team chat or see how the game is progressing just doesn't work. They need to be able to join team chat, and see the MCC healths, objective captures, and clone counts. Honestly, if possible, the kill log would be nice to see during the match of who killed who with what weapon too.

Economy

Like seriously. I want progress on this.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Ali Aras
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#10 - 2013-08-28 16:45:09 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
DUST needs to be part of the sov system.

It's basically the only way DUST will matter to EVE players enough for integration to work.


Disagree. I think if DUST could **** someone else's PI, they'd care.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#11 - 2013-08-28 16:51:44 UTC
Ali Aras wrote:
Crasniya wrote:
DUST needs to be part of the sov system.

It's basically the only way DUST will matter to EVE players enough for integration to work.


Disagree. I think if DUST could **** someone else's PI, they'd care.


It'd be a nice half-step, but I don't think it's enough. Planetary Conquest in DUST is about conquering territory. And why should DUSTies care about just interfering with some EVE carebears' POS fuel?

(Though the horrible sov system we have prevents a good method to make DUST help sov without being required for sov. We kinda need a new sov system, and that's a whole 'nother EVE expansion. It's not a Little Thing to add DUST to sov.)

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Ali Aras
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#12 - 2013-08-28 17:01:12 UTC
It's not EVE carebears' pos fuel, it's the bottom-up income livelihood of a lot of EVE players. You can plex accounts off your PI accounts and it's a significant income stream for a nontrivial number of players; the ability to disrupt PI *via* controlling territory would cause a lot of pain for those whose PI is disrupted, providing the sort of low-level shittiness used in sovwar to disrupt morale.

So yeah it'd be important.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#13 - 2013-08-28 17:07:02 UTC
But you don't just have to make EVE care about DUST, DUST needs to care about EVE. DUSTies want to claim planets, not shoot up a mining operation.

And what would you do about the fact that that would simply render Temperate planets a bad investment for PI? I mean, you could conceivably open PC up to Barren planets easily (just don't use grass textures, basically), but most of the others would require a significant development effort CCP isn't prepared for any time soon.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#14 - 2013-08-29 06:53:20 UTC
Ali Aras wrote:
Crasniya wrote:
DUST needs to be part of the sov system.

It's basically the only way DUST will matter to EVE players enough for integration to work.


Disagree. I think if DUST could **** someone else's PI, they'd care.


People just wont do PI. It is a boring click fest already so waking up to find your PI is destroyed and you have to do the click fest again doesn't encourage exciting gameplay.

The more you try and force eve players to play dust the more it will fail.

Stop assuming some kid downloading a free ps3 game care about who or what they effect in eve.

Try and get it to a broader audience - not just force eve players into an FPS they don't want to waste time playing that they could spend playing eve.


Remove all effects of dust on Faction war. It is just an annoyance for FW players and not really a 'feature'.
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#15 - 2013-08-29 12:45:50 UTC
Nobody's forcing EVE Players to "play DUST". But EVE players will need to hire mercenaries that do.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2013-08-29 13:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
If DUST mercs can be used to avoid or even just reduce structure grinding, they'll find a ready market.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-08-29 18:47:19 UTC
I'm very much down with Dust missions blowing up planetary structures to reduce resistances on sov structures in orbit, increase the variation in reinforcement timers, etc.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#18 - 2013-08-29 19:12:03 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I'm very much down with Dust missions blowing up planetary structures to reduce resistances on sov structures in orbit, increase the variation in reinforcement timers, etc.


That'd be a great short-term solution.

I think long-term, I'd personally like to see a more dynamic sov system, where it's based on % control, and stations, and structures, and districts and everything all contribute towards that, with the largest percentage holder having sov. In that way, districts could be a direct component in sov, while still remaining optional for system control.

But I doubt CCP is ready to rewrite the sov system for DUST yet. Reducing resistance on structures would be a great way to fit it into the existing system.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2013-08-29 19:51:00 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I'm very much down with Dust missions blowing up planetary structures to reduce resistances on sov structures in orbit, increase the variation in reinforcement timers, etc.


Speaking as an EVE player, I don't even care about the mechanics. They can blow up baby unicorns for all I care if they'll knock 50% off the EHP of the ihub.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Chamile Eonic
The Church of MDAMC
#20 - 2013-08-29 21:26:18 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I'm very much down with Dust missions blowing up planetary structures to reduce resistances on sov structures in orbit, increase the variation in reinforcement timers, etc.


Speaking as an EVE player, I don't even care about the mechanics. They can blow up baby unicorns for all I care if they'll knock 50% off the EHP of the ihub.


To make this work though they need some way to pay the Dust Bunnies and that opens a whole can of worms that CCP don't have an answer to yet. Lets hope that they give you a plan while you are there, even if it is under NDA.
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