Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I know how it works, thanks. And, no, I do not see your point. You want it fast and efficient, but every noob wants this. I am saying it is too fast. I cannot help you when you do not get that. Sorry.

Armageddon, Rattlesnake, Gila?

I also don't understand, that these two ships have the same size of Drone Bay (375)

Dominix is round 4 or 5 times bigger than a cruiser, but still have the same Drone Bay. (That doesn't make sense)

In addition i am with your oppinion about the differenz between the two ships.

Ishtar = fast, lower hits
dominix = slow, evil hits also the +5 km control range should go to the big ship (more electronic) or to the navy version.

There is quite a lot of differences you will have to be aware of before comparing the different weapon system to the drone weapon system:

1) Practically all Battleships can field a flight of medium drones or a mix of medium and heavy drones.
2) Some battleships can field a full flight of heavy drones/sentries (Dominix, Armageddon, Rattlesnake)

However, this is not what is being discussed, the sole focus is on the tracking bonus, should it be 7,5% or 10% (like now), I will now go through the different problematics that has been raised in this thread:

Dominix needs it bonuses aligned with other weapon systems.
Sentry drones track targets too well, has too long range and too high damage compared to other similar weapon systems.
The drone assignment mechanic is too powerful.
Omnidirectional tracking links are too powerful compared to tracking links of other weapon systems.
Drones should be able to be capped out preventing them from firing or using propulsion modules (so should caldari, minmatar weapon systems?)
The Carriers ability to field an immense amount of sentry drones is too powerful.

Dominix needs it bonuses aligned with other weapon systems
I think this statement is fundamentally wrong, for this to be okay, then there will have to be added drone skills (similar to gun ones), missing skills like falloff, tracking, rate of fire. As well as adding the possibility to overheat drones, and the ability to destroy guns and turrets.

Sentry drones track targets too well, has too long range and too high damage compared to other similar weapon systems
Sentry drones comes at great advantage in regards to fleet PvP and mission PvE, the problem with Dominix in fleet PvP is the assist mechanic, which makes a Battleship grade weapon, have the lock time of whatever ship it is assigned to.

The Dominix also has a great cost, it is very ineffective in small fleet warfare, incredible immobile and can only fit quite a few roles (guns in most cases are useless, compared to Megathrons), it will 9/10 times provide cap support or cap pressure.

The drone assignment mechanic is too powerful
I actually completely agree with this statement, the drone assist command is what provides the Dominix with supernatural powers in regards to fleet PvP. In a solo environment the tracking of 10% is decent, since the med slots can be used for either 1) Providing with longer/quicker lock range/time or 2) Providing drones with either quicker MWD speed or tracking and optimal range.

If anyone has tried locking an interceptor from 100km range with a Dominix, you will realise it is right next to you before that happens, and trust me, even with the 10% tracking bonus you will never scratch an interceptor at transversal.

[Omnidirectional tracking links are too powerful compared to tracking links of other weapon systems
In a PvP environment, with a Dominix in fleetwarfare the omnidirectional tracking links are immensely more powerful than Tracking Computers. There is however many factors that differ making it almost impossible to compare the weapon systems, especially in regards to Battleships with the "new" Microjump Drive. This drive can effectively remove a battleship from harm of sentry drones, or land it directly ontop of them being able to either smartbomb them away, or burn down the Dominix itself.

A dominix will mostlikely only carry one flight of Gardes and one flight of long-range sentry drones (Bouncers, Wardens, Curators), which are all horrible at tracking (even with the 10% bonus), meaning if you can destroy the flight of Gardes, the damage output and damage application will fall steadily.

Tracking Computer II (active, scriptable):
15% Falloff
15% Tracking speed
7,5% Optimal range

Omnidirectional Tracking Link: (passive, unscriptable)
25% Tracking speed
25% Optimal range

I cannot see how it is possible to compare these two modules, the stats are the same, but the effect is quite different, a Warden II is similar in terms of damage and range to a 425mm Railgun II. However it is hard to compare the differences between the Railguns themselves and their Sentry drone counterparts, the different Railguns have a different rate of fire, damage multiplier, optimal range and falloff, which also depends on the different ammo types used. It is possible to affect these stats through the use of implants (which is NOT availible to drone systems). Once all this has been accounted for you can be free to compare this different tracking modules.

Drones should be able to be capped out preventing them from firing or using propulsion modules
This for me raises a paradox, since the Caldari and the Minmatar weapon systems do not use capacitor to fire, should Gallente and Amarr drones be using capacitor to fire, while Caldari and Minmatar drones doesn't? Or should the drone weapon system be accepted as a capacitorless system alike projectile turrets or missile systems?

Another option is to make the drones use capacitor of the host, this may however make it far more cap heavy to be a Dominix pilot. than to be an Abaddon pilot.

In regards to the propulsion module, it is possible to use a warp scrambler to turn it off? If not, it should be. The capacitor part will take too much work in regards to the whole drone system to be worth it (I think?)

The Carriers ability to field an immense amount of sentry drones is too powerful

I completely agree with this, especially with the assist system, Carriers shouldn't but subcap-killers, but with a few interceptors a fleet of carriers will be almost unstoppable, providing a lethal gate camp. with Wardens able to hit targets insanely far away.

[Continued below]

Until the new Dominix appeared, I never heard anyone complain that sentry-carrying carriers were overpowered.

The new dominix has given rise to a new doctrine (or fashion) in Eve PVP which happens to involve sentry drones due to its incredible bonuses.

Drone assist is not b0rked, sentries in themselves are not b0rked, carriers are not overpowered (they are often a liability). Even single dominixes are not b0rked. It's just that dominixes are powerful in a fleet.

Well big deal. So are megathrons, tornados, abaddons, rokhs and even thrashers. Christ-on-a-stick! Ventures are dangerous in groups.

I think we all need to relax, fight a few fights, and then see how the land lies.

So CCP Rise... You are just going to make this change despite page after page of people saying this is not what we want. Page after page showing you why drone use is completely different from turrets.

You are just making this change and ignoring our feedback? Why should I as a paying customer consider this any different from the CCP of Incarna?

Yep I am using my main. As to be frank I wonder if CCP ignores posting alts even tho the point is the same. We do not like this change. We never asked for this change and we never asked to have events determine how the craft we use in this game are balanced.

No CCP Rise changes to Industrial craft do not balance out that you are nerfing a ship that takes a very large amount of skills to use right and worse that you are nerfing the Dominix without presenting any decent evidence on why you believe it is overpowered in comparison to turrets that can not be destroyed.

I fully understand that balancing is a never ending job. However, this is not balancing in my opinion. This is a knee jerk reaction that is not being done right.

So will you PLEASE remove this change from the 1.1 launch?

It was in answer to a post that was suggesting that an ishtar should not have as large a drone bay as a dominix on grounds of hull size.

I am not in any way advocating the equalisation of battleship drone bays.

Adding my 2c. (No, I don't fly a Dominix)

I don't like this change, I think it's bad practice to 'fix' something w/o giving players enough time to adapt.

The Domi bonus is still rather new, and who knows what clever people (and there are many around) will come up with to counter it.

That's what makes this game interesting, it's player driven. The game presents challenges, players take on them and find new, creative ways to adapt.

Fixing things by CCP should be kind of a 'last resort' thing, if and only if, after a reasonable long time, the player base hasn't been able to find ways to react. Hardly one patch tick is enough time. And this is in general, for any change.

I could not agree more. Blaster domi with ogres is the most fun domi.

And while you're at it, I'd like the utility high back on my megathron please.

[edit] wrong thread