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"How can we get more people into nullsec?"
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Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#21 - 2011-11-13 10:49:16 UTC
I bet you all would feel so much better if CCP got rid of warp bubbles.
Jr Instructorcon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2011-11-13 10:49:25 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
I was infering the OP unless shes your alt.


Sorry, it's late, thought you were referring to my post.
Jr Instructorcon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2011-11-13 10:50:27 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
I bet you all would feel so much better if CCP got rid of warp bubbles.


Let's remove everything that makes nullsec unique, so that way it is no different than lowsec!
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#24 - 2011-11-13 10:50:38 UTC
Its late here but my lungs are filling with liquid and keeping me up ><

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#25 - 2011-11-13 10:51:22 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
I bet you all would feel so much better if CCP got rid of warp bubbles.



Hell no I rahter see more toys put in null like a system defense bombarding cannon and system to system launchers.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Ann133566
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-11-13 11:02:37 UTC
My idea would be a free T-shirts and an all-u-can-eat buffet.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-11-13 11:03:23 UTC
Jr Instructorcon wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
I bet you all would feel so much better if CCP got rid of warp bubbles.


Let's remove everything that makes nullsec unique, so that way it is no different than lowsec!

Oh man the sickness runs deep in you. Warp bubbles is not "everything that makes nullsec unique"!
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#28 - 2011-11-13 11:08:23 UTC
No but its part of the give a mouse a cookie syndome.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#29 - 2011-11-13 11:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Elrich Kouvo
Nova Fox wrote:
No but its part of the give a mouse a cookie syndome.

You know warp bubbles weren't always in EVE right? This whole "make EVE better campaign" the CEO is on, acknowledges that CCP added some stuff they shouldn't have. Removing warp bubbles will get more people into nullsec.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#30 - 2011-11-13 11:25:16 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
No but its part of the give a mouse a cookie syndome.

You know warp bubbles weren't always in EVE right? This whole "make EVE better campaign" the CEO is on, acknowledges that CCP added some stuff they shouldn't have. Removing warp bubbles will get more people into nullsec.



Perhaps.

Bubbles are the "Great wall of Carebear".

But they are not the only threat. A well-boosted intie can lock very fast.

Hence those of you sitting at your gate camps dreaming of glorious fields of wrecks and tears have probably been more damaged by bubbles than your victims. Nobody will come out because of bubbles? Well the potential victim presumes he has "No chance" and bubbles are a large part of it. And because of that, there are not a lot of targets in 0.0. Therefore the gate campers ALSO have no chance, but no chance of getting targets - but I assume it's less chance overall. I did a 0.0 roam testing some BM methods and find a lot of dead aptly named throway scouts. It's down to bored campers killing scouts it seems.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#31 - 2011-11-13 11:28:59 UTC
Bubbles are not impossible walls to clamor over. Many of the time they're unattented when I find them.

The wall you are facing is imaginary impervious to you.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#32 - 2011-11-13 11:36:45 UTC
Jr Instructorcon wrote:

3. Fleet fights are boring, lagtastic, and require no skill or tactics.

Mostly false. Good FCs are worth their weight in gold out here. Large scale fleet engagement tactics and overarching strategy are much more complicated than small scale PvP, requiring the coordination of hundreds of players, advanced knowledge of the game mechanics, and the charisma to settle disputes and herd your legion of cats into the enemy. Fleet fights are a huge adrenaline rush, the teamwork, the comms, the **** linked in fleet chat, all of it leads to a pretty fun experience. Unless you are on a structure shoot. Then you play World of Tanks/Transformice/League of Legends with your fleet mates while your ship unloads for an hour or two on a tower. Lagtastic is generally true, but you get used to it, and learn to fight with it. The time dilation stuff coming should help with that.

TL;DR OP is a idiot who knows nothing of nullsec, and good alliances.


Anyone who has ever seen a Mr Vee fleet (from either end of the guns) understands that large scale PvP is unbelievably deep in terms of strategy and tactics involved.

I don't think you can dismiss null fleet battles offhand after seeing a fleet of half a thousand individuals move like a school of fish, warping between on-grid perches multiple times a minute, locking people up and popping them then relocating before they could react properly, and generally being a cohesive ball of coordinated death.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-11-13 12:19:35 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Jr Instructorcon wrote:

3. Fleet fights are boring, lagtastic, and require no skill or tactics.

Mostly false. Good FCs are worth their weight in gold out here. Large scale fleet engagement tactics and overarching strategy are much more complicated than small scale PvP, requiring the coordination of hundreds of players, advanced knowledge of the game mechanics, and the charisma to settle disputes and herd your legion of cats into the enemy. Fleet fights are a huge adrenaline rush, the teamwork, the comms, the **** linked in fleet chat, all of it leads to a pretty fun experience. Unless you are on a structure shoot. Then you play World of Tanks/Transformice/League of Legends with your fleet mates while your ship unloads for an hour or two on a tower. Lagtastic is generally true, but you get used to it, and learn to fight with it. The time dilation stuff coming should help with that.

TL;DR OP is a idiot who knows nothing of nullsec, and good alliances.


Anyone who has ever seen a Mr Vee fleet (from either end of the guns) understands that large scale PvP is unbelievably deep in terms of strategy and tactics involved.

I don't think you can dismiss null fleet battles offhand after seeing a fleet of half a thousand individuals move like a school of fish, warping between on-grid perches multiple times a minute, locking people up and popping them then relocating before they could react properly, and generally being a cohesive ball of coordinated death.


I think we've just found the reason people don't move to null.

If you need friends in null to be successful in null, and you've never been to null before and have no friends there, then doesn't that mean you get to lose ships repeatedly until you somehow magically make friends in null?

And if you don't end up making friends in null, then do you just quit the game? Keep dying until you go broke and have to crawl back to level 4s? AFK cloak?

This sounds rather un-fun. If I "win" I get to blob the crap out of people. If I "lose" I get blobbed until I leave. Why should I move to null again?

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-11-13 12:24:56 UTC
Ciel Dunois wrote:
Nullsec is held by large monolithic alliances whose overlords pocket all the lucrative wealth while leaving the rest of the faceless puppets with scraps.

"Why should I spend my money and time, serving some overlords?"

This is probably one of the biggest reasons why many don't want to go to null, why should I spend my money and my free time working another job for another boss.


Actually, bullshit about "nullsec alliance leaders pocketing all the moongoo ISK" is part of what keeps people out of nullsec.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#35 - 2011-11-13 12:26:25 UTC
Pinaculus wrote:


I think we've just found the reason people don't move to null.

If you need friends in null to be successful in null, and you've never been to null before and have no friends there, then doesn't that mean you get to lose ships repeatedly until you somehow magically make friends in null?

And if you don't end up making friends in null, then do you just quit the game? Keep dying until you go broke and have to crawl back to level 4s? AFK cloak?

This sounds rather un-fun. If I "win" I get to blob the crap out of people. If I "lose" I get blobbed until I leave. Why should I move to null again?


Uhh, connections and friends are just about the most important thing for success *anywhere*, from life to EVE. It is *NOT* hard to join an established nullsec alliance, and it is simply ******** to complain that the combined will of 1000 individual human beings is going to steamroll the combined will of 15.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#36 - 2011-11-13 12:35:05 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Bubbles are not impossible walls to clamor over. Many of the time they're unattented when I find them.

The wall you are facing is imaginary impervious to you.

They are unattended because they have over done their job. They are not impossible, but the last thing you need is a game mechanic that forces you to sit there and get blob ganked because you jumped into the system. Thats not fun. The only way to break through the gate camp is with equal or overwhelming force, which no small gang or solo player has. Warp bubbles need to go before high sec player will seriously consider nullsec.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-11-13 12:37:07 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Bubbles are not impossible walls to clamor over. Many of the time they're unattented when I find them.

The wall you are facing is imaginary impervious to you.

They are unattended because they have over done their job. They are not impossible, but the last thing you need is a game mechanic that forces you to sit there and get blob ganked because you jumped into the system. Thats not fun. The only way to break through the gate camp is with equal or overwhelming force, which no small gang or solo player has. Warp bubbles need to go before high sec player will seriously consider nullsec.


The reason bubbles will never exist in high-sec is due to empire's aggression mechanics. Land in a bubble, attempt to warp out, and the dictor or anchored bubble gets instagibbed by CONCORD.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#38 - 2011-11-13 12:41:15 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Pinaculus wrote:


I think we've just found the reason people don't move to null.

If you need friends in null to be successful in null, and you've never been to null before and have no friends there, then doesn't that mean you get to lose ships repeatedly until you somehow magically make friends in null?

And if you don't end up making friends in null, then do you just quit the game? Keep dying until you go broke and have to crawl back to level 4s? AFK cloak?

This sounds rather un-fun. If I "win" I get to blob the crap out of people. If I "lose" I get blobbed until I leave. Why should I move to null again?


Uhh, connections and friends are just about the most important thing for success *anywhere*, from life to EVE. It is *NOT* hard to join an established nullsec alliance, and it is simply ******** to complain that the combined will of 1000 individual human beings is going to steamroll the combined will of 15.

So do you support this point of view? It is okay if you do, because it sounds like you believe the guy with the most friends should dominate nullsec, which is okay, but it wont get more people in nullsec.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#39 - 2011-11-13 12:47:19 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

So do you support this point of view? It is okay if you do, because it sounds like you believe the guy with the most friends should dominate nullsec, which is okay, but it wont get more people in nullsec.


it is not a matter of supporting or disagreeing with a "view" - it is reality. when 1000 people want one thing, and 15 want another, 1000 will win. end of story. and the guy with the most friends is the guy who will dominate a conflict, whether you're talking politics, a minor disagreement, a video game, whatever.

you can hate it all you want - but we are social creatures who managed to reach the top of the food chain because of one thing and one thing only - we work together better than any animal on earth. we "blobbed" every threat to our survival out of the picture. but please, go on arguing against logic, common sense, and reality.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#40 - 2011-11-13 13:00:40 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Elrich Kouvo wrote:

So do you support this point of view? It is okay if you do, because it sounds like you believe the guy with the most friends should dominate nullsec, which is okay, but it wont get more people in nullsec.


it is not a matter of supporting or disagreeing with a "view" - it is reality. when 1000 people want one thing, and 15 want another, 1000 will win. end of story. and the guy with the most friends is the guy who will dominate a conflict, whether you're talking politics, a minor disagreement, a video game, whatever.

you can hate it all you want - but we are social creatures who managed to reach the top of the food chain because of one thing and one thing only - we work together better than any animal on earth. we "blobbed" every threat to our survival out of the picture. but please, go on arguing against logic, common sense, and reality.

The thread ain't about human nature as much as it is CCP giving gate campers an I win button in nullsec. The OP asked what would get more folks into nullsec, and the reason most folks don't go is because the choke points are bubble camped. Nothing is wrong with massive fleet battles, but CCP is unbalanced in their approach to nullsec. With bubble camps it is logical, to not go into nullsec.