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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#221 - 2013-08-28 08:37:26 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
I've tried it both ways multiple times. LP rushing is only worth it if you get the tags by doing missions that lock you out of some part of space. If you buy them you just don't get a great return on your LP compared to the simple stuff I sell that nets up to 1500 ISK/LP. I've seen the claims of what peole make in the LP store and its fine, but rushing LP isnt sustainable, period. You cant cherry pick every mission and win every time.

I have made well over 250 mil an hour salvaging many times. If I said I could do it every hour I'd be full of ****. I see people claiming that they can cash in 3000 ISK/LP and 60,000 LP every hour rushing. Bull to the ******* ****.

LP rushing might be great ISK, but so is completing the missions and using industry to maximize the profit.

And how it relates to this thread is that EITHER path is hard work with a big investment of in game money and real world time.


Tags are freaking easy to get, you have to think longterm. Set a buy order at the average price and forget about it. At worst a month later it is filled, rinse and repeat. It is very sustainable even if you need a lot of tags, just check the Jita volume. Standings can be a problem if you are flying only for one faction but doing it right you always fly for 2 opposing once like Caldari/Gallente etc. after enough storyline missions your faction standing averages out at about ~6 for both faction (with connections at 5 and declining all ****** missions). You have to know where and how to find a pair of L4 agents (of course for "good" NPC corps) within 2jumps of each other in systems with the lowest security possible.

3k ISK/LP is possible on several items but if you generate shitloads of LP you may run into the problem that you aren't selling them fast enough, so on average you can calc with 2k up to 2.5k ISK/LP.
60k LP/h on average is impossible in highsec, 40k LP/h on the other hand very much is.

Invest some time, think about how to min/max, know the standing and system security (it defines you LP payout) mechanics, know how to calc the ISK/LP for your 5run faction BPCs and 120m ISK/h with L4 is easy as hell but you have to stop following the herd and doing missions for Caldari, Amarr Navy etc. in the most common mission hubs.
When you have done all your prep work which costs time and after you set up everything the time you need to run your LP convert into ISK system needs only 10mins maintenance per day.

You can not make 40K LP per hour lol. Not even if you're running 5 accounts simultaneously. I have a 9+ standings agents and in 0.5 and I can't even make over 20k LP per hour, doubt I could even make that.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#222 - 2013-08-28 08:50:15 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Looks like you can earn around 40k in 5 missions. Thats doable in an hour.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#223 - 2013-08-28 13:10:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Looks like you can earn around 40k in 5 missions. Thats doable in an hour.


Yes, and you can attach wings to your aunt so she flies. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2013-08-28 13:27:01 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.

Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.

Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour


I believe the next in the pattern should have been...
I don't believe you are correct. L4 are not a step progression, but the end game.

Experience players will tell you all about how ISK per hour they can earn in L-4 running hundreds of them. Tell you to the second how quickly they can do Angel Extravagance, but ask then how much the can earn or how fast they can run the level 1s to the second... and the response is telling.

Missions are 'tiered'. Once you can run L-2s well, the reasons to go back to L-1s are limited. Standings being the exception.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#225 - 2013-08-28 13:38:57 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jori McKie wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
I've tried it both ways multiple times. LP rushing is only worth it if you get the tags by doing missions that lock you out of some part of space. If you buy them you just don't get a great return on your LP compared to the simple stuff I sell that nets up to 1500 ISK/LP. I've seen the claims of what peole make in the LP store and its fine, but rushing LP isnt sustainable, period. You cant cherry pick every mission and win every time.

I have made well over 250 mil an hour salvaging many times. If I said I could do it every hour I'd be full of ****. I see people claiming that they can cash in 3000 ISK/LP and 60,000 LP every hour rushing. Bull to the ******* ****.

LP rushing might be great ISK, but so is completing the missions and using industry to maximize the profit.

And how it relates to this thread is that EITHER path is hard work with a big investment of in game money and real world time.


Tags are freaking easy to get, you have to think longterm. Set a buy order at the average price and forget about it. At worst a month later it is filled, rinse and repeat. It is very sustainable even if you need a lot of tags, just check the Jita volume. Standings can be a problem if you are flying only for one faction but doing it right you always fly for 2 opposing once like Caldari/Gallente etc. after enough storyline missions your faction standing averages out at about ~6 for both faction (with connections at 5 and declining all ****** missions). You have to know where and how to find a pair of L4 agents (of course for "good" NPC corps) within 2jumps of each other in systems with the lowest security possible.

3k ISK/LP is possible on several items but if you generate shitloads of LP you may run into the problem that you aren't selling them fast enough, so on average you can calc with 2k up to 2.5k ISK/LP.
60k LP/h on average is impossible in highsec, 40k LP/h on the other hand very much is.

Invest some time, think about how to min/max, know the standing and system security (it defines you LP payout) mechanics, know how to calc the ISK/LP for your 5run faction BPCs and 120m ISK/h with L4 is easy as hell but you have to stop following the herd and doing missions for Caldari, Amarr Navy etc. in the most common mission hubs.
When you have done all your prep work which costs time and after you set up everything the time you need to run your LP convert into ISK system needs only 10mins maintenance per day.

You can not make 40K LP per hour lol. Not even if you're running 5 accounts simultaneously. I have a 9+ standings agents and in 0.5 and I can't even make over 20k LP per hour, doubt I could even make that.


Blitzing is a thing. But yeah consistently getting 40k/hr from hi-sec missions, I doubt it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#226 - 2013-08-28 13:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
Jenn aSide wrote:
Caviar Liberta wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Moon goo has injected zero isk into the system ever.


That is correct. If anything Moon goo requires a certain amount of investment to cause a transfer of wealth from the consumer of the product made to the producer that produces it.

Basic economics LOGIC must a hard concept for some to grasp it seems baltec.


There, that's better. Fixed :) .


Yes because we all know everyone here on the forums are arm chair honorary econmic master degree holders. Lol its splitting hairs in my opinion. ISK income still effects the bottom line and I know the moon goo holders dont want attention drawn to this topic.

I am sure you economic majors will all agree that lvl 4 missions are better income than moon goo....right Roll

Your quick to jump on a topic that effects hi-sec yet dont really want to talk about how damaging moo goo income is to the game in general.

Your quick to jump on a topic that effects hi-sec yet don’t really want to talk about how damaging moo goo income is to the game in general.


You forum trolls get more predictable by the day.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#227 - 2013-08-28 13:43:58 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I am sure you economic majors will all agree that lvl 4 missions are better income than moon goo....right Roll
On an individual level, it certainly is.

Quote:
Your quick to jump on a topic that effects hi-sec yet dont really want to talk about how damaging moo goo income is to the game in general.
Maybe if you took the time to explain how it damages the game, because until you do, there's not really much to talk about…
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#228 - 2013-08-28 13:45:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Caviar Liberta wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Moon goo has injected zero isk into the system ever.


That is correct. If anything Moon goo requires a certain amount of investment to cause a transfer of wealth from the consumer of the product made to the producer that produces it.

Basic economics LOGIC must a hard concept for some to grasp it seems baltec.


There, that's better. Fixed :) .


Yes because we all know everyone here on the forums playing this video game are all arm chair honorary economic master degree holders. Lol its splitting hairs in my opinion. ISK income still effects the bottom line and I know the moon goo holders don’t want attention drawn to this topic.

I am sure you economic majors will all agree that lvl 4 missions are better income than moon goo....right Roll

Your quick to jump on a topic that effects hi-sec yet don’t really want to talk about how damaging moo goo income is to the game in general.

The forum trolls become more repetitive and predictable every day.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#229 - 2013-08-28 13:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
The forum trolls become more repetitive and predictable every day.
Maybe some of it would go away if they didn't first double-paste their response, and then also double-posted it for good measure… Blink
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#230 - 2013-08-28 13:50:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Yes you are right. The trillions and trillions of isk the moons generated all went where? RMT? Moon goo is an income just like any other.
Where the ISK went doesn't matter — what matters is where it's coming from. Where it's coming from is one of the four ISK faucets: bounties, agent rewards, insurance, and NPC buy orders. Moon goo may be an income source, but it is not an ISK faucet. It's a materials faucet, and a pretty moderate one at that.



If you wanted to be really persnickety about it, you could make the case that a fraction of T2 materials are used to make T1 ships into T2 ships, thus increasing their insurance value, thus indirectly leading to a small increase of ISK in the economy when those ships are destroyed.

Of course the T2 manufacturing process and sale probably sinks very nearly as much ISK as this.


Well thank you Mal. Yes lets be persnickety.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2013-08-28 13:51:50 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Blitzing is a thing. But yeah consistently getting 40k/hr from hi-sec missions, I doubt it.


It is
Jori McKie wrote:

Psst, don't tell all that supid L4 farmers that you have to fly for a NPC corp with a good LP shop and blitz specific missions. As a matter of fact, i did an update on my ISK/h with blitzing missions. I was crazy enough to stop the time i need to complete the mission from the warpin, then i filtered the missions which have a greater than 1000LP/min ratio and started a 4h run with that missions declining everything else.
The LP ratio is about 38k LP/h and the ISK ratio including bounties and rewards with a very lowballing 2k ISK per LP is drumrolls:
120m/h.

Examples, the top 3 best missions LP/min are:
Recon (only part1) with 6125 LP/min (i need 1min to finish it)
Dread Pirate Scarlet with 3459 LP/min (i need 2min and 30sec to finish it)
Stop The Thief with 3137 LP/min (i need 1min and 15sec to finish it)


I didn't even optimized it to perfection, so 40k LP/h on average isn't crazy as it sounds.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#232 - 2013-08-28 13:55:36 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Well thank you Mal. Yes lets be persnickety.
If you want to be pernickety about it, the ISK faucet is still insurance, and the size of it is determined by standard minerals, not moon goo.

Either way, materials creation is not an ISK faucet.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#233 - 2013-08-28 14:02:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Well thank you Mal. Yes lets be persnickety.
If you want to be pernickety about it, the ISK faucet is still insurance, and the size of it is determined by standard minerals, not moon goo.

Either way, materials creation is not an ISK faucet.

Prime example here. Let’s try and get everyone to argue over what the exact meaning of the definition of something is rather than discuss the core issue.

I am sure there will be others to follow.

Carry on as you where.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#234 - 2013-08-28 14:07:18 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Prime example here. Let’s try and get everyone to argue over what the exact meaning of the definition of something is rather than discuss the core issue.
Yes, you provide a perfect example. Wouldn't it be much better if you didn't?

Why did you want to discuss the definition instead of answering questions about the core issue?
Do you even know what the core issue is any more?
Do you have anything to back up your spurious and baseless claims?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2013-08-28 14:09:37 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
... I know the moon goo holders don’t want attention drawn to this topic...

The Goonswarm Federation candidate to the CSM and a member of their economic cartel brought it up. He indicated the system need lots of work.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#236 - 2013-08-28 14:12:56 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Well thank you Mal. Yes lets be persnickety.
If you want to be pernickety about it, the ISK faucet is still insurance, and the size of it is determined by standard minerals, not moon goo.

Either way, materials creation is not an ISK faucet.

Prime example here. Let’s try and get everyone to argue over what the exact meaning of the definition of something is rather than discuss the core issue.

I am sure there will be others to follow.

Carry on as you where.


An isk faucet is something that injects isk into the game.

Moon goo injects no isk into the game.

That means it is not an isk faucet.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#237 - 2013-08-28 14:28:37 UTC
Is it just me, or did the guy who is always accusing people of derailing threads with "trolling" just derail a thread....with trolling about a the definition of words??
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#238 - 2013-08-28 14:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


I am sure you economic majors will all agree that lvl 4 missions are better income than moon goo....right Roll.


IIRC a "good" moon these days makes on the order of 5M ISK/hr worth of moon goo. (You can work this out from the market price of the moon materials), which should be easily exceeded by a noob running level 2s.

Of course the moon keeps on making that wealth 24/7, which is a big advantage, and the wealth is easily concentratable which is the real point of them.

Given that a good level 4 mission runner in a nicely fitted faction BS should be able to make about 40M/hr, he'd have to mission about 3 hours a day to make as much as a "good" moon does these days. That sounds pretty achievable.

I'd say any of the large mission hubs in hi-sec probably produces as much or more wealth as the CFC moons. There are rarely less than 80 or 100 missioners at any time in the bigger hubs, and up to 200+ in weekend peak hours. If you want to call it an average of 125 missioners operating at any given time over the 24h period, then that's wealth generation equivalent to approximately 1000 R64 moons.

I feel pretty confident is saying that hi-sec missions in sum outproduce moon wealth generation by at least an order of magnitude. (If I had to guess, then I'd say by about 2000%).

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#239 - 2013-08-28 14:59:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


I am sure you economic majors will all agree that lvl 4 missions are better income than moon goo....right Roll.


IIRC a "good" moon these days makes on the order of 5M ISK/hr worth of moon goo. (You can work this out from the market price of the moon materials), which should be easily exceeded by a noob running level 2s.

Of course the moon keeps on making that wealth 24/7, which is a big advantage, and the wealth is easily concentratable which is the real point of them.

Given that a good level 4 mission runner in a nicely fitted faction BS should be able to make about 40M/hr, he'd have to mission about 3 hours a day to make as much as a "good" moon does these days. That sounds pretty achievable.

I'd say any of the large mission hubs in hi-sec probably produces as much or more wealth as the CFC moons. There are rarely less than 80 or 100 missioners at any time in the bigger hubs, and up to 200+ in weekend peak hours. If you want to call it an average of 125 missioners operating at any given time over the 24h period, then that's wealth generation equivalent to approximately 1000 R64 moons.

I feel pretty confident is saying that hi-sec missions in sum outproduce moon wealth generation by at least an order of magnitude. (If I had to guess, then I'd say by about 2000%).

40M an hour is around the middle of the scale, and doesn't need a faction BS to achieve. I hate BS's, so I run 4's in a BC, including salvage and loot I can pull between 30 and 40 million an hour given the right missions.

The only reason I salvage is because Pro-Synergy no longer operate where I mission, when they did the income was closer to 40-45M an hour + my cut from the loot and salvage. I could probably improve upon that by switching to a tier 3 BC and going for all out gank and just enough tank to get by.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#240 - 2013-08-28 15:12:44 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


I am sure you economic majors will all agree that lvl 4 missions are better income than moon goo....right Roll.


IIRC a "good" moon these days makes on the order of 5M ISK/hr worth of moon goo. (You can work this out from the market price of the moon materials), which should be easily exceeded by a noob running level 2s.

Of course the moon keeps on making that wealth 24/7, which is a big advantage, and the wealth is easily concentratable which is the real point of them.

Given that a good level 4 mission runner in a nicely fitted faction BS should be able to make about 40M/hr, he'd have to mission about 3 hours a day to make as much as a "good" moon does these days. That sounds pretty achievable.

I'd say any of the large mission hubs in hi-sec probably produces as much or more wealth as the CFC moons. There are rarely less than 80 or 100 missioners at any time in the bigger hubs, and up to 200+ in weekend peak hours. If you want to call it an average of 125 missioners operating at any given time over the 24h period, then that's wealth generation equivalent to approximately 1000 R64 moons.

I feel pretty confident is saying that hi-sec missions in sum outproduce moon wealth generation by at least an order of magnitude. (If I had to guess, then I'd say by about 2000%).



Nonsense. If you just jump into high sec , ccp gives each nullbear a free R64 moon that produces isk instead of moon goo, along with a map complete with the times and locations of officer spawns.

Null is the land of milk and honey, which is why a whole 11% of eve characters live there, unlike high sec which is a barren wasteland of a few (hundred thousand) characters scraping by on crumbs because it's so impossible to make any isk there.
Twisted