EVE General Discussion

EveMon and EFT do have a direct effect, Evemon allows you to optimise remaps, implants and skill queues without having to log in and experiment to find the most efficient way to plan your character progression, EFT allows you to theoretically fit ships without exploding and losing ships. They're helper tools that can increase the efficiency of the way you play.

Dotlan effects the game directly by providing relatively up to date intelligence about jumps and kills in solar systems, amongst other things, allowing a person to plan for either engaging in or avoiding combat. It also links to EveWho which is a great resource for anybody planning a war as it consists of a reasonably up to date record of who is in what corp. They're intelligence tools, the more information you have at your fingertips, the more you can potentially be effective in game.

EFT, Dotlan, or EVEmon can't shoot at you. These are not tools that are used in the sandbox.

Im not the one whos whining here.

Yes, they are 3rd party, and yes dotlan can affect outcome, but not the game itself inside the sandbox. I'm not talking about theoretical things like you said, like trying out a fit in EVEHQ or EFT. These things I'm talking about are physical, and can affect the sandbox itself.

Excluding EFT, EveMon and EveHQ because they are mainly character helper tools, the rest still stands, external tools can, and do directly affect the sandbox.

Dotlan can affect an outcome but doesn't affect the game itself? If it affects an outcome within the game, it's affected the game. It's not rocket science.

Lets use some real world comparisons. DotLan, EveWho and EveLive (Chribba's chat logging tools) are intelligence gathering tools akin to the business intelligence tools used by investment companies, banks etc and the alphabet agencies used by governments for military and economic planning. They allow the user to plan ahead, find opportunities to exploit and otherwise succeed in their endeavours.

Alternatively they also allow users to research and not be taken advantage of by others, I've seen AWOXers try and join corps and be refused because of external tools pointing to the fact that they are AWOXers, another ingame effect facilitated by external tools.

I'm going to use Goonswarm (Grr™) as an example here because they are extremely proficient at this. They have an entire wing dedicated to analysing and creating opportunities in the market so that they, as a corporation and an alliance, can make stupid amounts of isk via manipulation or warfare. I can pretty much guarantee that they're using external analysis tools to produce an ingame effect.

They also have members who are good at producing propaganda, most of which is first class. Combined with their network of spies and infiltrators they can leverage both visual and written propaganda (spreading distrust, falsehoods and doubt on their enemies forums) to dishearten their enemies and thus make them weaker. A disheartened enemy isn't going to be effective in combat, ergo the external tools employed have an in game effect.

3rd party tools may not be shooting at you, but in the right hands can be more effective than any fleet at destroying an enemy in the game, and thus affecting the game (or sandbox if you prefer).

So which part of metagame do you not understand?

How the hell evemon or eft or dotlan or etc etc has a direct effenct on the game? And i said a reason why it shouldn't be allowed.

Is it expensive? is it hard to set up? "Whose problem is that"?

Still not the same issue what I'm talking about, or why this thread was opened.

Im not the one whos whining here.

Hi! I multibox. A rather lot.

There seems to be a rather hilarious overestimation of the true power/capability of tools such as isboxer (and others). While I would love to be a pvp supergod, as some say this tool makes you, my several hundred (approaching a thousand) stealth bomber losses this year is probably sufficient proof to show otherwise. (I'm pretty bad at eve though so maybe I am a god, just a terrible one, who knows)

Out of game requirements:
-Ridiculously high end PC
-Way above average general computer knowledge
-Patience and ability to learn the tool (which, by the way, is completely unintelligible and difficult to use)

Skill requirements:
-Very high battlefield perception
-Insane multitasking ability
-Capability to react to quickly changing circumstances
-Recovering from a bad situation when things go wrong
-Knowledge of when to cut your losses and bail

In game requirements:
-Logistics chain to supply X characters on deployments or otherwise
-Massive almost corp-level income source(s). Even more if you are plexing the accounts.
-All the other things, like skill management, moving characters around etc. Multiplied X times of course.


Even if you are great at all that, you're going to lose a devastating number of ships, and for most people it isn't sustainable at all.

People keep saying this is pay to win, or easy mode pvp, or it's breaking the game. I have been multiboxing for about a year and a half now. It took me about a year of constantly playing to master just one shiptype. During wartime I easily lose 100 ships a month, uninsurable. I pay out 6.5 BILLION a MONTH in plex alone, and several more billion on ships, ammo and logistics. Every month. Poof.

All the software does is repeat commands. Simple right? WELL...not really. Ever notice how your overview is slow to load when things enter/leave grid? Well it turns out they load at different rates for everyone, which means locking things accurately is next to impossible at times. I could list dozens of other limitations like that, but that's just an example. How do you keep cameras aligned? How do you approach a target with traversal when they aren't? Drones are difficult to use and control. Overview is a disaster in every sense. Micromanaging modules is incredibly difficult. If your ships get split up it's a nightmare. Using more than one shiptype exacerbates all of these issues.

The fact is, an equivalent fleet of real people will always be more effective than a single person. Running a multibox squad is very similar to a barely constrained trainwreck at all times, and once something goes wrong it more often than not spirals into an orgy of death and destruction. For you. It's usually expensive. And since you're fighting a bunch of real people, they will capitalize on it every time. That said, multiboxers usually find some niche role in which it works, practice it for months until they master it, and then unleash hell on everyone else. That's where these tear threads come up, because it's usually someone at the other end of six months of practice, failures, lessons learned and, eventually, perfection. At least as close as you can get. Sorry if you feel CCP should make it easy against someone who is playing the game several levels above you. For a lot of people, this is endgame content.

To fund it all, I either have to rat for 30+ hours a month, or do other activities (guess which I prefer). In the past, this has included things like market speculation and trade (requiring market knowledge and billions of isk) and POS reactions. (Think 30+ POS at a time) Currently I'm taking a break and I'm burning through my isk stockpile alarmingly quickly. The point is this - without a wholesome understanding of many varied aspects of the game, this kind of expense just isn't sustainable.

So, for everyone that says it's easy, or pay to win or whatever other nonsense you're spewing, I invite you to give the trial a go, start up a half dozen accounts and then do a few roams through syndicate in thoraxes. I look forward to your lossmails.

Im sure it has been said before, I didnt bother reading through the entire thread, but to those who complain, simply get some alts, get ISBoxer and try it for yourself. Instead of whining and complaining, use it.
You will see, as one of the previous posters above me said, that it is actually quite the effort not only to set up, but also to use properly. One mistake, and you can lose your entire fleet, because you rep the wrong ship, or shoot yourself, heh.
Nothing is automated, everything you do with ISBoxer requires your input, so please dont even compare it to botting.

I dont use it for PvP, but I use it for PvE. Why?
Because PvE (which I need to do to fund my PvP) in Eve is so TERRIBLY boring, that the only thing that keeps me going is creating more burden and things to do/control for myself to make it somewhat interesting.

In other words, the only way I can even stand grinding through mindless and dumb NPC ships, is by using multiple ships of my own - to keep myself busy and at least a little bit challenged.

The abilty to use alts, create and fly multi-ship setups, where one ship complements the others, creates a huge new level of complexity, which is a good thing.