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CCP ? - Sources of minerals (drones, loot drops, reprocessing and mining) - Influence on economy.
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AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2011-11-12 15:28:29 UTC
IF it gets implemented, mining will be THE way to go to farm.
Really, with a damn-big ISK faucet being created, and a damn-big mineral faucet being destroyed, we could expect minerals to soar retardedly.
minerals doubling over 6 months doesn't sound too strange.
bornaa
GRiD.
#42 - 2011-11-12 15:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: bornaa
AureoLion wrote:
IF it gets implemented, mining will be THE way to go to farm.
Really, with a damn-big ISK faucet being created, and a damn-big mineral faucet being destroyed, we could expect minerals to soar retardedly.
minerals doubling over 6 months doesn't sound too strange.


And?
I don't see problem there...
Some ppl need to learn that size of ship isnt the most important thing... and ppl will appreciate more T1 ships... and that will make EVE richer game with more tipes of ships in space and less capital blobs.

and if mineral price doubles... it still wont get to the price it used to have...
and... dont you think that its stupidly funny that mining isnt the biggest mineral faucet... its the smallest...


p.s.
I, bornaa, have NO indy skills.


p.p.s
and boom in mineral prices wont happen because more ppl will sweep the dust from theirs hulks and start mining.
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-11-12 15:44:54 UTC
I don't see any problems in making 100m/h mining in Null.
Still, people will dust hulks only when it'll be more profitable than whatever else they're doing.
at 40m/h null, 15m/h hisec, it comes out as "just" 80/30 with 2x prices, which means that incursions are still up.
Multiboxers, on the other hand...
Adunh Slavy
#44 - 2011-11-12 15:53:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
The only source of minerals should be mining, period. I don't say this cause I am a miner, I have mined, it is boring, but it's good for watching TV.

Not only are mineral prices held down by having too many sources of minerals, the division of labor suffers from something of a substitution effect. Do you spend your time mining, or do you spend your time shooting rats? You can do either one and get minerals - one can be substituted for another. They are not perfect substitutes, but they are far too close.

Vertical business models are too easy and too common in Eve. The need for someone to specialize in mining is reduced by having too many sources of minerals. Mining is not a "mini-profession" it is one of the major branches of Eve professions. There should be no other way to source minerals other than a commitment to this major branch of the skill tree.

Drones can drop something else, something new, something that has a use and value. Use drone droppings to make those active tank chargers that Calais had mentioned. Maybe they drop something new that we can use to build organic ships, or T3 frigs ... something. :)

Rats should stop dropping loot and instead drop "broken" modules. The scrap reprocessing skill could be re-tasked to a reverse engineering. Level 5 in scrap can reverse up to meta 4 items. level 1 can reverse meta 0. The result of the processing are 1 run BPIs (blue print inventions) that can be stacked and sold on the market. This will not only reduce mineral supply, it will create mineral demand.

"Oh No, nothing can be reprocessed anymore?! Your idea sucks!" ... stop building so much stuff! The markets will correct sooner or later.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#45 - 2011-11-12 16:06:51 UTC
I've mulled this over not long ago being an industrialist on this character.

What I would hope to see is
A, yes the drone mineral drop removed, but
B, not replaced by making them average rats.

Why not have them drop modules (a bit like WH rats) that can convert a normal ship into a drone boat? Make them really unique ships with a pod pilot controlled membrane, which gives a pod pilot control over a converted ship, where the membrane wears out over time like a laser crystal does.

Making them just like the rest of the rats would be bad for the diversity of rats in EVE i.m.h.o.
Aquila Draco
#46 - 2011-11-12 16:17:37 UTC
Nice to see this many responses... Big smile

CCP, can we get yours too??? Question

I like yours suggestions ppl. to not only remove minerals from drones - to make mining only source of minerals... by changing what rats drop or making that things that rats drop don't give minerals...

and yea... few expansions ago CCP did say that they will remove tier 0 drop... but that didn't happen...



Ill expand title of this thread to cover drops too...
Aquila Draco
#47 - 2011-11-12 17:10:03 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
It was soundwave who said he wasn't a fan of how things are. I'll get the exact quotes, so I don't get anything wrong.

CCP Soundwave wrote:
I'm considering putting bounties on them and turning them into normal rats.

I hate gunmining with a passion.


CCP Soundwave wrote:
This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.



There you have it. They are clearly planning to change things, but nothing seems to be concrete yet and they are still looking for feedback.



and... THNX... Big smile
bornaa
GRiD.
#48 - 2011-11-12 19:52:33 UTC
AureoLion wrote:
I don't see any problems in making 100m/h mining in Null.
Still, people will dust hulks only when it'll be more profitable than whatever else they're doing.
at 40m/h null, 15m/h hisec, it comes out as "just" 80/30 with 2x prices, which means that incursions are still up.
Multiboxers, on the other hand...



Well, that is the purpose of doing this... making a mining the viable profession... which it is not today...
and this what you say about incursions... well... thats a freedom of choice... and mining must be made a real choice so that ppl can choose... but under this condition today very little (real) ppl choose mining... (can you blame them?)
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2011-11-12 20:06:08 UTC
My point is that rorqual-boosted hulk mining on pure arkonor should be #1 income.
Apart of metagame/trading activities, ofc.
It should be over incursions, L4s, sanctums (apart of titans running these.. lol)
The problem on it is that it's easily multiboxable, even at 5-10 clients.
bornaa
GRiD.
#50 - 2011-11-12 21:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: bornaa
AureoLion wrote:
My point is that rorqual-boosted hulk mining on pure arkonor should be #1 income.
Apart of metagame/trading activities, ofc.
It should be over incursions, L4s, sanctums (apart of titans running these.. lol)
The problem on it is that it's easily multiboxable, even at 5-10 clients.


i don't know about #1 because it's income that you can do semi-afk... or with many accounts... but it should be much higher then its now...
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2011-11-12 22:37:55 UTC
semi-afkable if you're in deep 0.0, and even then you should be watching intel.
Else, you're gonna lose two hulks a day.
bornaa
GRiD.
#52 - 2011-11-13 00:10:12 UTC
AureoLion wrote:
semi-afkable if you're in deep 0.0, and even then you should be watching intel.
Else, you're gonna lose two hulks a day.



well... I think you have a point there... P
but still multiboxers stay as a limitation...

I only hope that CCP give us some word or two and stop ignoring us here and all Indy ppl in EVE... Attention

When last time EVE had Industry expansion???
NEVER... Ugh

yea... "that one" "Industry expansion" that brought in EVE few ships... and that's it... so still NEVER... Roll
CCP is only talking about Industry in EVE and doing nothing... and only make indy ppl life harder and harder with every expansion...
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#53 - 2011-11-13 01:32:07 UTC
CCP is prolly laughing at wild speculation in this thread.

Removing compounds from drones is a bad idea as it is one of the largest sources of morphite in game and minerals in general. IF they do this i think i will put a huge investment into minerals as trit will go back up to 5.0 per unit.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Adunh Slavy
#54 - 2011-11-13 01:57:35 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
CCP is prolly laughing at wild speculation in this thread.

Removing compounds from drones is a bad idea as it is one of the largest sources of morphite in game and minerals in general. IF they do this i think i will put a huge investment into minerals as trit will go back up to 5.0 per unit.



If that's what the market wants, then who's to argue with it?

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Severian Carnifex
#55 - 2011-11-13 09:01:47 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
CCP is prolly laughing at wild speculation in this thread.

Removing compounds from drones is a bad idea as it is one of the largest sources of morphite in game and minerals in general. IF they do this i think i will put a huge investment into minerals as trit will go back up to 5.0 per unit.



And why would that be a bad thing???

I think its a last moment to do something like that to save economy and industry...


and... yea... its logic that you go with shotgun to "mine" minerals... What?
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#56 - 2011-11-13 10:36:05 UTC
100million isk mining in null???? err its about 64-78 million per head in a maxed out fleet.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#57 - 2011-11-13 12:18:40 UTC
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
Aquila Draco wrote:
I have read somewhere DEVs reply about removing mineral drops from drones and putting something else on its place
Can you please give us update on this? Is this coming?

That's very nice change and players would be thankful.


first they nerf the miniral ammount and now they take it away compleatly, now drone missions are going to be compleatly worthless.



Insofar as money is worthless I guess.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#58 - 2011-11-13 12:20:46 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
CCP is prolly laughing at wild speculation in this thread.

Removing compounds from drones is a bad idea as it is one of the largest sources of morphite in game and minerals in general. IF they do this i think i will put a huge investment into minerals as trit will go back up to 5.0 per unit.


That's exactly why it should be changed. Mining should be the primary source of minerals. The reason that people don't mine high ends much these days is that the supply from the drone regions totally undercuts their market.

As mineral prices rise and the supply from drone loot disappears.... more people will mine.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#59 - 2011-11-13 13:05:49 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
CCP is prolly laughing at wild speculation in this thread.

Removing compounds from drones is a bad idea as it is one of the largest sources of morphite in game and minerals in general. IF they do this i think i will put a huge investment into minerals as trit will go back up to 5.0 per unit.


Tritanium at 5.0 per unit? Not in the past few years.

2007 - price was capped at 3.60 by the ability to reprocess NPC-sold shuttles
2008-2009 - dipped to a low of 2.00-2.50 for a very long time
2010-2011 - bounces between 3.00 and 3.50

A reduction in the amount of drone poo that drops in drone regions, however, would be a big boon. Something around 50% reduction, with compensation given back in some other way (meta 1-4 modules, bounties, tags).

You'd also need to take another swing at the amount of T1 meta modules being dropped.

Maybe reduce the ability to re-process salvage without having Scrapmetal Processing trained. Make that skill count for a lot more then it does today by lowering the base level of minerals that you can get back from reprocessing by 20-30%, with Scrapmetal Processing being used to make up the new shortfall. That alone would result in a reduction in the amount of materials flowing in from loot reprocessing.
Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
#60 - 2011-11-13 13:23:35 UTC
Terrible changes, miners need to learn their place, its at the bottom.... where they belong.