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Advanced Spaceship Command is a badly designed skill
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Anna Verhyldvar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-07-11 09:52:57 UTC
Disclaimers: I'm sucking it up and training it on 2 chars, so don't give me that.

It is badly designed because it is absolutely useless (except, possibly for injecting other skills) until you train it to V. There is no ship in the game with a requirement of Adv Spaceship Command IV or lower. Since the agility bonus it gives is also only available to the ships it is a requirement for, it does not have any effect on the pilot until you finish training level V.

I feel that training a skill to level 1 should have some effect on the pilot in space. Even ship specific skills like Logistics or Covert Ops have immediate effects on the ship, despite the fact that anyone who wants to use the ships seriously always trains them to V and IV respectively.
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-07-11 22:09:11 UTC
Many people race for capitals, so Adv Ship Command becomes a delay mechanism to slow them down. In other MMOs, "end game" regions are locked and need a quest or key mechanism to unlock. This is the same sort of timesink.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-07-11 23:30:34 UTC
You have to remember that ASC V replaced Racial Indy V as a prereq for injecting Racial Freighter. Would you rather have a skill that takes X days and does absolutely nothing for your freighter, or one that takes X days and gives you a 25% agility buff? Cause those are your choices.

They aren't going to remove or reduce the time sink to get into freighters, and this way at least you get something from that time. Used to be you had to train that much time for nothing, and THEN train ASC on top of it to get the sorely needed agility. The current tree is a massive improvement over that.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#4 - 2013-07-12 03:32:29 UTC
Maybe ASC needs to effect more Ships? So the lower levels are actually useful, I'm thinking something like all Advanced Hulls, or All Industrial Hulls or all Hulls BC/BS and Above?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-07-12 05:42:29 UTC
It's a time sink.
caps should not be easy to get into.
dont like it, dont train it.

There is no Bob.

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Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-07-12 10:33:17 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
It's a time sink.
caps should not be easy to get into.
dont like it, dont train it.

This.

I'm not training it. Lol
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-07-12 11:31:07 UTC
while i agree that it is a bit silly to have a skill that is 100% useless unless you train it to V, i also agree that it is a justifiable time sink for getting into capitals. some other reasonable use would be nice but meh, whatever.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-07-12 15:04:10 UTC
yup. it blows.

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BraiZure Harloon
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-08-18 20:48:37 UTC
So Dev's have no response as of yet to this thread. Is there any other skill that until you get 5 ranks in it that is totally useless?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-08-19 02:20:27 UTC
do you REALLY expect a dev to comment on this irrelevant thread? theyre probably busy actually working on things.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2013-08-19 04:30:21 UTC
Do devs actually post in this forum? Can't say I remember when that last happened, other than for moderation.
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#12 - 2013-08-27 19:27:52 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
do you REALLY expect a dev to comment on this irrelevant thread? theyre probably busy actually working on things.



you really need to drop the attitude and re-read the OP. No one suggested that the time it takes to train to lvl5 is too long, nor is anyone suggesting that Cap ships should be easier to fly. the suggestion was that the skill should provide some sort of character development prior to lvl5, like 99% of the other skills in game. The way the current skill is set up now really just shows CCPs laziness or perhaps their lack of inspirado.

I dont think that ASC should buff other ships, or anything like that. Make training ASC I, II, III, IV requirements for other skills or ships, even! Increase time sinks for all I care! Just dont make training a skill up a level DO NOTHING!

also, last time I checked, CCP was busy with 653 other games that arent EVE.

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-08-27 22:15:50 UTC
BraiZure Harloon wrote:
So Dev's have no response as of yet to this thread. Is there any other skill that until you get 5 ranks in it that is totally useless?


Of course the Devs aren't going to reply because someone made a thread about not liking a skill... They're all busy working on an emergency patch to have this skill removed immediately! *laughs uncontrollably*
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#14 - 2013-08-27 23:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciaphas Cyne
IIshira wrote:
someone made a thread about not liking a skill.


wow ok i guess i should stop all assumptions of literacy on this forum. read the OP before you comment please

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-08-28 02:45:06 UTC
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
IIshira wrote:
someone made a thread about not liking a skill.


wow ok i guess i should stop all assumptions of literacy on this forum. read the OP before you comment please


Well you just proved what happens when you assume...
Govind
Parity Labs
#16 - 2013-08-28 16:29:17 UTC
EvE Online is a constantly changing game. There is no urgent need to add a use for levels 1-4 of ASC, they will be there if CCP decides to add a new ship or change the training requirements of existing ships as they often do.

The reason this does not warrant developer attention is that the request itself is backwards. The uses of ASC 1-4 are potential answers to design problems, not problems in and of themselves. If CCP decides that a particular ship that requires ASC 5 takes too long for players to get into, a solution would be for it to require a lower level of ASC. The same goes for if they decide to add a new ship.
Jabu Smith
Ast Bandit Holdings
#17 - 2013-08-28 17:03:46 UTC
We still don't have tech 3 battlecruisers and battleships. I mean for all we know this skill may come into play (levels 1-4) when they implement the more advanced of the larger classes :)
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#18 - 2013-08-28 20:55:19 UTC
Jabu Smith wrote:
We still don't have tech 3 battlecruisers and battleships. I mean for all we know this skill may come into play (levels 1-4) when they implement the more advanced of the larger classes :)



i thought tech 3 big ships were a non-starter?

"The reason this does not warrant developer attention is that the request itself is backwards. The uses of ASC 1-4 are potential answers to design problems, not problems in and of themselves."

a very positive outlook on the idea! and hopefully these currently empty slots will be filled with purpose one day.

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#19 - 2013-09-01 22:42:04 UTC
Huttan Funaila wrote:
Many people race for capitals, so Adv Ship Command becomes a delay mechanism to slow them down. In other MMOs, "end game" regions are locked and need a quest or key mechanism to unlock. This is the same sort of timesink.



I wouldn't even consider capitals as "end game" since there are quite a few people who won't ever train them. I plan on training all sub-caps before I even think about getting into capitals. Most people float in that same boat. The people who don't are people who are making alts for their alliance/corps.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#20 - 2013-09-02 17:58:05 UTC
I guess, when the only description to fit the skill is "Time Sink" then it is a bad skill.

Pretty much means that a noob can't sit in a poorly skilled Cap Ship now...but he can 20 days from now if he trains an otherwise irrelevant skill..
And not just noobs, but long time pilots as well.

I had never thought of this before. And I realize that other skills do more or less the same thing, but this one seems singular in it's own right.
+1 for the thread.
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