These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Odyssey and colour blind pilots

First post
Author
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#61 - 2013-07-11 22:21:02 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
this is a stealth fire ccp art devs thread.

for as long as the game has been out the art department has been the single most ardent opponent to customization of the client for individuals.
basic options like POS revamp, clouds, text color changes, the suns intensity, the ship viewer light sources, etc.
All have been rejected by the art department for no reason.

and instead we get new noob ships.


No, it's a 'stop discriminating against colour blind Capsuleer Pilots who just want a level playing field to play on'...in this day and age it's just simply disgraceful.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#62 - 2013-07-12 08:08:14 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
this is a stealth fire ccp art devs thread.



No it's not. I'm a BIG fan of CCP and a BIG fan of EVE. I've said it many times and I'll repeat it here, that I believe that EVE online is the single best computer game ever made. I think the art is awesome and it would grieve me intensely if anyone lost their job over this feedback. And of course nobody will... and that's how it should be.

I can appreciate that the "art" department probably doesn't have anyone who is colour blind working for them and as such they may be insensitive to the needs (these are not "wants" but actual "needs") of colour blind people.

The purpose of this thread is not to lay blame. It's to attempt to make the developers aware of issues that they may not have been aware of before. Developers may not have been aware that colour blind people have terrible trouble scanning for ships because of the colour choice, for example. I believe I'm in a position to explain that to them so I try in the only way I can, via the forums.

I really do appreciate the number of likes and the attention this thread is getting. When I wrote the OP I was feeling frustrated but I'm much more optimistic now that the message has been received. Thank you all.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#63 - 2013-08-15 10:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Because this needs to be kept alive for those affected. Back to Page 1!

EDIT: Also why isn't the actual Topic showing a CSM badge on it as it has TWO currently serving CSM posts supporting this idea? In fact where are the GM\DEV tags saying why this can't be done or that CCP is looking into it and providing some feedback at what is being looked into?

EDIT: Is there a CSM Tag at all? If not, why not? Get one made. I'm sure you'd attract more attention to a thread if it had DEV\GM\CSM tags as most with a DEV post do.
Cade Windstalker
#64 - 2013-08-15 10:56:12 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
EDIT: I've evemailed Trebor Daehdoow regarding this matter. If you want to use the below feel free but lets get some action on this and evemail your CSM Representative:


I have raised this issue with CCP before, and will continue to do so. I've started a thread in the CSM internal forums about this and pointed interested devs to this thread.

Players with particular types of color-blindness may wish to list examples of where the interface lets them down and potential remedies that they think will have good "bang for buck" in addressing the issue.


I would like to thank the guy who brought this to your attention and I'd like to thank you as well for taking it seriously.

You asked for examples.

There are three MAIN examples in the current interface that I find difficult. All three of them are things that happen under time pressure and are PVP related:

1) scanning. When using probes to scan for ships, the little red boxes on the solar system map are very difficult to see. I can usually find them eventually by moving the map into different orientations, moving probes out of the way and studying the screen carefully to see where they are, but they are nearly invisible to me. Moreover, if the red bracket overlaps a celestial then it is literally invisible to me. It makes probing ships very slow despite having a toon with perfect probing skills. I don't have trouble with the yellow brackets, just the red ones. Orange might work better than red. blue would be awesome.

2) red-boxing. It's very easy for me to see if I'm being yellow-boxed but it's difficult to see if I'm being red boxed. I simply can't see the little flashing red brackets around the ship icons in the overview well enough. If I put my face close to the screen or dim the lights in the room while I'm playing then my chances of seeing the flashing red brackets are better but I often have to *assume* I've been red-boxed when i see the yellow-boxes disappear. That can be very hampering in a fleet fight when your overview is full and only 1 or 2 people are shooting at you and you would like to know which ones so you can keep at range of them.... Here too, orange might work better than red.

3) Flying ECM...... I've gotten over the colour-coding of the jammer modules by putting them on my ship alphabetically by race. However, because you don't use the same jammers every time, I usually have to write them on a postit and stick it in my screen to avoid using the wrong jammer. I simply can't see the colour differences between these modules well enough to tell the difference between the racial colour coding. In fact, I didn't even realize there WAS a racial colour coding until a corp mate pointed it out to me. The solution would be to change the appearance to work a shape into the icon. A square, a triangle, a circle, a line....

There are some minor issues but these are the big things that happen under time pressure when being colour blind really inhibits gameplay. The new hacking mini-game with flying red and green cans where you need to only go after the green ones under substantial time pressure isn't even going to be remotely playable.

T-


So, I'm running examples through my brain and with the exception of the chat window/portrait color icons (which are already customizable) I can't think of an instance of Blue being used in the overview whether it's for probing boxes, targets, or anything else.

Would an option to swap those reds universally to blue be helpful for you, and do you think it would be helpful for other color-blind people?

Regarding the ECM, what about little sub-graphics similar to the ones we now have on hardeners? A little magnet for Mag jammers, a Radar Tower for radar, ect. Or maybe just a letter or a racial frigate silhouette? I really can't see anyone with a bit of experience in the game failing to recognize the silhouette of a Rifter, Merlin, Incursis, or Executioner (the ammar and gallente ones are, perhaps, a little less iconic but I picked the examples I thought had the most recognizable silhouettes). All of these are used in T2 hulls and I think most newer players who are ever going to use a jammer are going to attack something with or be attacked by these frigates.
ZeEmperoR
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-08-15 11:09:26 UTC
definitely should be done! also bump
NastyLlama
#66 - 2013-08-15 11:40:14 UTC
It would be very nice if my red green colour blindness did not make eve so restrictive at times, I can't add much to what's been said already but here is a link to check if you are colour blind.
Colour blind test


10 years of being ignored is really bad customer relations.Shocked
I wonder how many people join then leave the game due to the added confusion it creates with a game that has such a steep learning curve.

Sad



Creepy Brutor
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-08-15 11:43:31 UTC
Support Bump
Takari
Promised Victorious Entropy
#68 - 2013-08-15 11:56:52 UTC
and my axe! Allow color customization for our color-blind friends!

"Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things. Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon

"Good luck, shoot straight and don't back down." - Serendipity Lost

Kenny Drein
Big Shadows
The Initiative.
#69 - 2013-08-22 01:22:13 UTC
Bumpage for an issue that to my knowledge remains relevant, cause last time i checked, there still exist colourbilnd people who play eve!
Humang
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#70 - 2013-08-22 02:13:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Humang
Why do I keep seeing thread like this with no DEV or CMS tags?
Bump to keep this at the top of the form list. (+support, again)

AFK cloaking thread Summary - Provided by Paikis Good Post Etiquette - Provided by CCP Grayscale

Yakima DWB
Baited Sting
#71 - 2013-08-22 02:19:02 UTC
I have a buddy who did a trial, but was irritated with being colorblind and not able to get the full extent of the game. +1, color choice should be a no-brainer
Pew Terror
All of it
#72 - 2013-08-22 17:52:08 UTC
Blame Intel:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6931151

Creating patents so other people can't implement useful things (even if trivial for companies like nvidia or amd) and never implementing them yourself is one of the more silly things in this world.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#73 - 2013-08-27 11:39:29 UTC
Yakima DWB wrote:
I have a buddy who did a trial, but was irritated with being colorblind and not able to get the full extent of the game. +1, color choice should be a no-brainer


This shouldn't happen in this day and age...would it be so hard to implement? We're not talking "Customize Colour EVERYTHING" but a "round-table" would probably be required with Colour-Blind people.

Perhaps it could even be used on the Annual Survey as Sex, Age, Hours of play is all used. Come on CCP, If it's too hard then say why, if you're looking into it then say that you're looking into it. I think from the above quote you're losing revenue and to be honest a bit of respect from colour-blind\affected people and those that aren't as well.

Free bump back to Page 1 you go.

Thought: I wonder if there is a disability discrimination law regarding game design that would apply in this case. It'd be interesting to find out not that I'm threatening legal action just more curiosity.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#74 - 2013-08-27 11:43:29 UTC
CCP is probably just a racist bunch?
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#75 - 2013-08-27 11:46:03 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
CCP is probably just a racist bunch?


Don't quite think it's racism but I'd love to hear what they have to say regarding this subject.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#76 - 2013-08-27 12:03:43 UTC
Totally support this - I feel lucky to have good eyes - hope CCP can do something to make the interface more sympathetic!

TBH - I'd find it easier if certain shapes or whatever could become synonymous to colours. For the racial ECM stuff - they could incorporate the racial logos on the modules. For other things Green stuff could become a box outline shape - red could become a cross - orange a diamond.

But I'm no designer - I'm not experienced with accesability options - my suggestions mighn't even work! But I hope CCP do something.

Related to this is the regular request for CCP to give us more UI customisation options - Just general everyone wants this!
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#77 - 2013-08-27 12:06:03 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
CCP is probably just a racist bunch?


Don't quite think it's racism but I'd love to hear what they have to say regarding this subject.


Me neither, but maybe they react if we provokate them some. Big smile
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#78 - 2013-08-27 13:00:30 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
CCP is probably just a racist bunch?


Don't quite think it's racism but I'd love to hear what they have to say regarding this subject.


Me neither, but maybe they react if we provokate them some. Big smile


Well with 2 CSM posts in this thread I hope something is being talked about if only behind closed doors. Hell I'd even go so far as to only have this customisation available to people who can submit a Doctors Cert to say their colour blind to prevent others customising (I can hear the Civ-Lib screams already!).

I'm not colour-blind myself but if I took a Capsuleer on that was I want to know I beat him\her\he\she beat on a level playing and not because he couldn't see I did X\Y\Z to him or whatever.
Cade Windstalker
#79 - 2013-08-27 23:35:18 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Well with 2 CSM posts in this thread I hope something is being talked about if only behind closed doors. Hell I'd even go so far as to only have this customisation available to people who can submit a Doctors Cert to say their colour blind to prevent others customising (I can hear the Civ-Lib screams already!).

I'm not colour-blind myself but if I took a Capsuleer on that was I want to know I beat him\her\he\she beat on a level playing and not because he couldn't see I did X\Y\Z to him or whatever.


UI in games is never supposed to be the enemy, contrary to the opinions of people who feel that making anything at all easier to read/use is "ruining the game" Roll

If people want their "red crosses" to be blue, pink, purple, or whatever other color why not let them? Should make "are you being red boxed?" a hilarious question to ask in some fleets Lol

Seriously though, more color blind support++!
Eyie Soikutsu
Science and Trade Institute
#80 - 2013-08-28 00:56:27 UTC
+1 Red/Green Color Blind here