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New dev blog: Death to the session change timer!

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Xenial Jesse Taalo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2011-11-12 09:15:23 UTC
I agree that removing the simple mechanic of "If you're still invulnerable you cannot request to dock" is not a positive thing.

But reducing any session timer definitely is.



137 clicks. Mouse and touchpad.
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2011-11-12 09:25:23 UTC
Thanks for that link btw, had to give it a go. Lol

Got to 120 Clicks on 3rd try.. I'm starting to get old, and my poor mouse is old.

Golem • CCP In-Game Event 2011.11.23 • Nyio • Grenade?
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#103 - 2011-11-12 09:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
VonKolroth wrote:


I would assume the invulnerability timer would be obsolete should the session timer be eliminated altogether. It would just no longer be needed.

I dont know about you, but with my crappy internet and crappy computer, I certainly wouldnt want to get rid of the invulnerability timer. I hate station games with a passion like the next guy, but I would hate jumping/undocking into a blob and dying without loading the screen even more.

ps. the change mentioned in the devblog is great

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#104 - 2011-11-12 10:10:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Grath Telkin wrote:
CCP Gaurd

For 8 years we've been asking you to fix the dumb that is "Station Docking Games".


So you made it worse?

I mean seriously, in one swift motion you've made station docking games infinitely worse, instead of that brief second where you might catch somebody asleep at the wheel you now give them a full 10 seconds to dock with complete immunity.

So instead of actually fixing what we asked you to fix, you compounded the problem and made it infinitely worse than it was before?

Dear CCP, please FIX docking games, this does not mean any of the followin -

1) Increased docking range by massive amounts.

2) give them 10 seconds of absolute immunity on the undock


What it does mean is that you make undocking have meaningful consequences, something you're going out of your way to purposely strip from the game. This is not what you've been asked to do.


Realistically, if you actually wanted to FIX station docking games, you'd flip your intended change so that you had 20 seconds of immunity and a 30 second station redock timer. THAT would instantly fix all station docking games, knowing that if you choose to undock, you have 10 seconds where you and your ship are vulnerable.

But instead you make things worse, thanks for that.


1. "Increased docking range by massive amounts."

No thx, stations and gates so huge. That's just completely ruined the pvp there. Docking games from 50km range ?
This is the most crap part of the game, when CCP increased the radius size of stations.

Region change gates ? All size is ridiculous big. Can't catch anything there.

Need change the "docking games" and gate jumping rules after deaggressing.
1 minute time after deaggressing is not enough, need increasing this timer at station and at gates too.
Need change the neut logistic ships docking rules after repairing when they support combatants.Insta redock rules is crap.
fenistil
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2011-11-12 12:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: fenistil
I have actually noticed the "ship changinging no session timer" change :) It was an exciting read especially combined with the one on CarbionIO. I would be very interested to see the changes to the server for the Winter Expansion.

As for station docking games:
that is actually part of the game. :) If you don't like it, avoid it. It's simple, just don't warp to the station.
Or from your perspective, yes it is worse now; you can switch ships a lot lot faster so your enemy can quickly dock up and undock in that big nasty ship of his. hihi

.
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2011-11-12 13:02:25 UTC
While I agree that station themselves need a redesign to get rid of station games, I can't see how this is bad really.....

The complaints here are basically:

I can't sit on the station undock and alpha undocking frigs
I can't sit a gang on a station and stop other people from playing the game

Which are two of the lamest tactics in EVE

Personally I think that the stations should be armed with fecking huge cannons (see the main gun on Babylon 5 after it's defence refit as an example) and respond to aggression on ships undocking, as well as giving the undocking player a chance to halt before leaving the station's shield perimeter.

Lets face it, no station wants hostilities on it's undock, thats the LAST thing they want and would be willing to defend themselves.

Perhaps we could also make stations use a interdiction field as well (perma) so that there is a area of conflict around the edges of the station, but not directly on the undock. It would also mean caps had to slow boat out of the undock a way before they could jump. Also you wouldn't be able to light a cyno field inside this bubble so arriving caps also have a small element of risk.

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Sturmwolke
#107 - 2011-11-12 17:40:11 UTC
This is more on the UI side, the session timer icon & messages need to be more prominent & explicit.
The same goes for aggression or GCC flags.

On high res screen, them sitting unobstrusively on the top left isn't ideal for relying important player status information.
Ideally, I'd want them free floating (but pinnable) and scalable (up to a reasonable size).

Should've made this comment on the scalable UI blog, but if you're taking notes, please pass them along to the right team.
YarrMama
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#108 - 2011-11-12 19:54:44 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
As it is a small group can set up in a probable JF route and cause havoc, with this change they're basically just spinning their wheels doing nothing since CCP has decided that anything near a station should be virtually untouchable.



Since when does PL use a "small group" to do anything? 50 supers has never been a small group? You guys are some of the best, quit whining about lame tactics that you use for easy kills and find a better way to get fights. You've done it before, but now you're used to super blobs and ganks, go back to the drawing board and have fun. Big smile

And just because I wear a helmet on the bus does not make me stupid. P
Oyabun Nobunaga
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#109 - 2011-11-12 20:10:07 UTC
I'm sure this has already been said,

Definitely not a fan of my target having a extra 10 seconds to dock instead of having to be as fast on the button as i am.

Re-dock and invulnerability should end at the same time. I am perfectly ok with getting rid of session timers everywhere else but keeping the undock-invul and shortening the redock time is doing something unpleasant to undock-n-pop shoots. Keep them the same or get rid of them entirely.
Morar Santee
#110 - 2011-11-12 22:06:15 UTC
Oyabun Nobunaga wrote:
I'm sure this has already been said,

Definitely not a fan of my target having a extra 10 seconds to dock instead of having to be as fast on the button as i am.

Re-dock and invulnerability should end at the same time. I am perfectly ok with getting rid of session timers everywhere else but keeping the undock-invul and shortening the redock time is doing something unpleasant to undock-n-pop shoots. Keep them the same or get rid of them entirely.


Agreed. There has to be some theoretical chance to destroy undocking ships.

People playing the timers well are already fairly immune (on insta-redock stations), and that's as far as it should ever go. Guaranteed survivability is the wrong way.
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2011-11-12 22:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalilus
How about letting docked pilots see who is waiting for them outside a station? How about letting pilots see who is on the other side of a gate? Make the Space Barbie that is walking in stations useful for something. THEN get rid of all timers. Result - no more gate or station games, no need for invulnerability.
Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#112 - 2011-11-13 04:46:40 UTC
I just want to confirm this bit of information:

"The same applies when jumping through a gate. You will continue to be invisible and invulnerable for 60 seconds or until you move."

So by this, when I jump through a wormhole, I will remain cloaked for a total of 60 seconds on the other side, before I become visible to other players (or before they bump me) But I am able to jump back in 20 seconds. Correct?
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2011-11-13 07:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
Sassums wrote:

So by this, when I jump through a wormhole, I will remain cloaked for a total of 60 seconds on the other side, before I become visible to other players (or before they bump me) But I am able to jump back in 20 seconds. Correct?


Wormholes also have this weird 'extra timer', that if you jump thru a wormhole 2 times quickly, then for the third time you are hit by a 4-5 minute ( I forgot how much it was) timer during which you cannot use the wormhole because its "unstable". I assume that timer isnt going anywhere?

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#114 - 2011-11-13 08:55:56 UTC
Dalilus wrote:
How about letting docked pilots see who is waiting for them outside a station? How about letting pilots see who is on the other side of a gate? Make the Space Barbie that is walking in stations useful for something. THEN get rid of all timers. Result - no more gate or station games, no need for invulnerability.

This change actually does just this. Hit the undock button, and you have 20 seconds to look around you, and then further 10 seconds to decide whether you want to actually undock or stay in the station. The tradeoff is that your enemies now know your ship type. I like it.
Antir
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2011-11-13 11:29:34 UTC
YarrMama wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
As it is a small group can set up in a probable JF route and cause havoc, with this change they're basically just spinning their wheels doing nothing since CCP has decided that anything near a station should be virtually untouchable.



Since when does PL use a "small group" to do anything? 50 supers has never been a small group? You guys are some of the best, quit whining about lame tactics that you use for easy kills and find a better way to get fights. You've done it before, but now you're used to super blobs and ganks, go back to the drawing board and have fun. Big smile

And just because I wear a helmet on the bus does not make me stupid. P


He isn't necessarily talking about PL, a smart group of people can have a major impact on jf logistics. I can't remember who it was but there was a corp murdering DRF and other 0.0 alliance jfs in lowsec and higsec border systems because they worked out how those dumb jfs were traveling and made them pay for not taking the right precautions.
Viejo Melholm
NecroRise Squadron
Galaxy Spiritus
#116 - 2011-11-13 17:24:11 UTC
Holey Guakamoley!
Angeliena
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#117 - 2011-11-13 17:50:33 UTC
This is a good change. Well done. Keep tweaking, never stop. I like CCP's new found commitment to "Total Quality Management"
Dr Djago
EnTech Technology
#118 - 2011-11-13 19:10:04 UTC
Damn it CCP, why didn't you do stuff like this 2 years ago when I actually enjoyed and play the game???
Loed Kane
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#119 - 2011-11-14 02:29:55 UTC
awesome there doing this, this might be the best expansion i have ever seen Big smile
Haulin Aussie
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2011-11-14 04:16:21 UTC
Giving capitals anywhere in high/low sec a free jump out is bad mmmkay CCP.