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Sarum Family Heir recommends assault on Republic
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Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#221 - 2013-08-25 03:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Out of interest, hak suuole, what is Pieter Tuulinen-haan's definition of a "Good Caldari"?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#222 - 2013-08-25 05:49:50 UTC
Someone who's part of the State proper, devoted to their kirjuun and is constant in their alleigance to the State. Someone who cares about Caldari issues first and foremost and who is an exemplar of Heiian with all that means. Someone who's disciplined without being too much of a pettifogging bureaucrat, who minds his ancestors and venerates the Winds but who makes their own fate and takes their own consequences.

Someone who is proud of who they are, but won't put that pride before their duty. Someone who is dedicated to their duty but who wouldn't put duty before heiian.

I don't know? Visera Yanala?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#223 - 2013-08-25 08:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
I agree with that definition barring two minor exceptions, only one of which is important to this conversation: I don't think it's necessary to be part of the State proper to still be a good Caldari.

It's about Heiian, about what you do and what you sacrifice. It's not about where you live. You can work on the State's behalf without being a part of the main stream of its society. I'd even argue that the State requires such people.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#224 - 2013-08-25 11:35:26 UTC
Without meaning any disrespect: In my time interacting with Mr. Hakatain he showed behavior and expressed thoughts that I usually encounter among the Minmatar, not the Caldari. From my outsiders perspective he thus seems more like a Minmatar who's espousing the odd Caldari trait every now and then, than a Caldari with some quirks picked up from the Minmatar.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#225 - 2013-08-25 13:07:41 UTC
Well, you've had a lifetime of practice at ignoring the reality that's in front of you in favour of seeing only what you wish to see.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#226 - 2013-08-25 15:34:03 UTC
Ignore the mewling sycophants who attempt to smear your name and reputation, Captain Hakatain. Among most rational members of the capsuleer community, regardless of race or political alignment, you are held in the highest of regards. Your actions have always adhered to your own moral code guided by the principles of Heiian.

As to you Vikarion, my answer remains "A". You know nothing of me or the Gallente so, I turn your lazy pedantry back upon you.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#227 - 2013-08-25 16:25:04 UTC
Mr. Bete, "rational" doesn't mean "those agreeing with me" or "those I find important".
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#228 - 2013-08-25 17:02:00 UTC
Mr Bete, maybe the definition for sycophant actually lies in your own mirror.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#229 - 2013-08-25 17:05:43 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I agree with that definition barring two minor exceptions, only one of which is important to this conversation: I don't think it's necessary to be part of the State proper to still be a good Caldari.

It's about Heiian, about what you do and what you sacrifice. It's not about where you live. You can work on the State's behalf without being a part of the main stream of its society. I'd even argue that the State requires such people.


While you don't need caldari blood to be a good caldari, being a citizen is the basis for this. There are some that work outside the society, keep in the shadows or sacrifice their own completeness for the greater good but I do not think you'd count as one of those elusive operatives?
This also has nothing to do where you live and work, but who for. There are plenty of megacorporate holdings outside The State, after all.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#230 - 2013-08-25 18:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Repentence Tyrathlion
Nick Bete wrote:
Ignore the mewling sycophants who attempt to smear your name and reputation, Captain Hakatain. Among most rational members of the capsuleer community, regardless of race or political alignment, you are held in the highest of regards. Your actions have always adhered to your own moral code guided by the principles of Heiian.

As to you Vikarion, my answer remains "A". You know nothing of me or the Gallente so, I turn your lazy pedantry back upon you.


I truly adore the implication that suggesting that Mr Hakatain has a hefty dose of Matari in his thinking is a smear. That's a lovely attitude you've got there, Bete.

I happen to think that Ms Mithra has a point, incidentally. I wouldn't call him a Matari with Caldari flavourings, but he's definitely somewhere in between the two. Nor do I consider that to be a bad thing. (Or a good thing, while I'm about it.) He himself has argued that there is compatibility in the two cultures.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2013-08-25 20:16:59 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

Quote:
That's the stuff of dictators, not the leader of a Republic.


...and the difference is...


In a Republic the people vote for representatives. These representatives then elect a leader and make decisions for the people. Fitting to their title, representatives represent the opinions and beliefs of the people who elected them. Power is usually evenly distributed.

In a dictatorship, one person seizes all power in the government. Sometimes this is done peacefully with people actually electing a dictator, and other times the dictator takes power by force. Once in a while a dictator can actually do a good job and rule properly. Most of the time, the power goes to their heads and they do all sorts of horrible things.

I thought Amarrians had a high standard of education, this is grade school stuff!


I thought the same about Gallente, but you apparently don't bother paying attention to actual politics, so that kind of spoils it.

Shakor was not elected. He kicked out the previous leader and dissolved the representative body, and then installed himself. There was an 'election' that doesn't really deserve the term, what with the fact that he was the only contender.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of 'power going to their heads'... see: Yulai, the invasion of the Empire and Colelie.


You're moving goalpost I'm afraid. You were asking for the difference between a dictator and a prime minister (leader of a Republic more specifically).

I'm not trying to deny that Shakor is a power hungry maniac putting on the fascade of some wise old man who received help from "jovians". I think we can agree on that.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#232 - 2013-08-25 20:27:11 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
You're moving goalpost I'm afraid. You were asking for the difference between a dictator and a prime minister (leader of a Republic more specifically).

I'm not trying to deny that Shakor is a power hungry maniac putting on the fascade of some wise old man who received help from "jovians". I think we can agree on that.


It's only moving goalposts if you're too dimwitted to spot the subtext and intent in my original post.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#233 - 2013-08-25 20:46:04 UTC
I can't wait until the Jovians get involved in all of this Big smile

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#234 - 2013-08-25 20:58:22 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I agree with that definition barring two minor exceptions, only one of which is important to this conversation: I don't think it's necessary to be part of the State proper to still be a good Caldari.

It's about Heiian, about what you do and what you sacrifice. It's not about where you live. You can work on the State's behalf without being a part of the main stream of its society. I'd even argue that the State requires such people.


If you think back, Verin, you'll remember that I was asked to define what made someone a good example of a State Citizen!

Obviously ya gotta be a citizen to be a good one.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2013-08-25 21:47:24 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
You're moving goalpost I'm afraid. You were asking for the difference between a dictator and a prime minister (leader of a Republic more specifically).

I'm not trying to deny that Shakor is a power hungry maniac putting on the fascade of some wise old man who received help from "jovians". I think we can agree on that.


It's only moving goalposts if you're too dimwitted to spot the subtext and intent in my original post.


And in typical IGS fashion, one party resorts to ad hominem when called out on something.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#236 - 2013-08-25 22:16:06 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
If you think back, Verin, you'll remember that I was asked to define what made someone a good example of a State Citizen!

Obviously ya gotta be a citizen to be a good one.


You were asked "what is Pieter Tuulinen-haan's definition of a "Good Caldari"?"

I did not specify citizenship. We all know that citizenship status is a.. fuzzy affair when it comes to freelance capsuleers anyway. I prefer not to worry about whether or not I'm a good Caldari citizen, and focus instead on just being a good Caldari.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#237 - 2013-08-25 22:52:01 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
If you think back, Verin, you'll remember that I was asked to define what made someone a good example of a State Citizen!

Obviously ya gotta be a citizen to be a good one.


You were asked "what is Pieter Tuulinen-haan's definition of a "Good Caldari"?"

I did not specify citizenship. We all know that citizenship status is a.. fuzzy affair when it comes to freelance capsuleers anyway. I prefer not to worry about whether or not I'm a good Caldari citizen, and focus instead on just being a good Caldari.



Quote:
Verin has been practically the model Caldari citizen for longer than you've had your pilot's license.


I know you didn't specify a citizen, but the original point was that you were - if you think back you'll remember I agreed you were a good Caldari but not a model citizen. You asked me what a good Caldari was but, to be honest, I'd already answered that question, so I stayed on topic.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2013-08-25 22:55:01 UTC
Oh dear.
I go away for a while and it seems nothing's changed.
Such a pity.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#239 - 2013-08-25 23:09:34 UTC
Andreus likes to say nice things about me. The most I'm willing to say for myself is that I try to do my best.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#240 - 2013-08-25 23:52:30 UTC
That's all anyone can ask, really.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.