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Nightmare for L4s

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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#1 - 2013-08-24 18:14:53 UTC
Would a Nightmare be a good choice for L4 missions? If so, what are some fits I could/should use? Aside from the Jovian ones and the SoCT, Sansha Nation ships seem the coolest to me.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#2 - 2013-08-24 18:23:07 UTC
It is an elite ship against Blood Raiders, Drones, EoM and Sansha rats; a good ship against Mercs, Guristas, and Serpentis; a subpar ship against Angels.


So it really depends on where you are missioning. As for fits, typical is 4 T2 Pulses or 4 Imp Navy Tachs, a cap booster and an active shield tank. Lows are a mix of Heat Sinks and Tracking Enhancers.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-08-24 22:21:35 UTC
4 x T2 tachyons in the highs
2 x T2 tracking computer, 1 x EM hardener, 1 x thermal hardener, 1 XL SB, 1 SBA, 1 heavy cap booster in the mids.
4 x heatsinks, 1 tracking enhancer in the lows.
1 T2 rig to reduce weapon cap use (forgot the name), 1 x T1 EM resist rig, 1 x T1 Semiconductor memory cell rig.

IMO the Nightmare is awesome against EM weak rats but for other rats it's just okay.

Also please don't fly it without proper skills. It's a gank ship with a thin tank so you will lose it without proper skills.
Orlacc
#4 - 2013-08-24 22:42:47 UTC
Great ship! Where will you be flying?

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Cadius Vect
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#5 - 2013-08-25 00:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cadius Vect
The basis of any good nightmare fit should be this:

[Nightmare, Nightmare]
Tracking Enhancer II
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

[Capacitor Control Circuit II]
[Capacitor Control Circuit I]
[Capacitor Control Circuit I]

^ the rest is up to personal taste, but you don't need much tank on a ship that projects 1000 DPS to 45km, XL shield booster, 3 resist mods and a cap booster works well.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#6 - 2013-08-25 04:32:55 UTC
Cadius Vect wrote:
The basis of any good nightmare fit should be this:

[Nightmare, Nightmare]
Tracking Enhancer II
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

[Capacitor Control Circuit II]
[Capacitor Control Circuit I]
[Capacitor Control Circuit I]

^ the rest is up to personal taste, but you don't need much tank on a ship that projects 1000 DPS to 45km, XL shield booster, 3 resist mods and a cap booster works well.


Pretty much spot on except you want a Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II rig over the T2 CCC, it's cheaper and gives more cap stability and will fit easily, however it does require more skills. Also the fourth heat sink is better off T2 as you lose a mere 7 dps and around 50 volley damage which will not make enough difference to warrant the extra 50mil.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2013-08-25 10:15:47 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
It is an elite ship against Blood Raiders, Drones, EoM and Sansha rats; a good ship against Mercs, Guristas, and Serpentis; a subpar ship against Angels.


So it really depends on where you are missioning. As for fits, typical is 4 T2 Pulses or 4 Imp Navy Tachs, a cap booster and an active shield tank. Lows are a mix of Heat Sinks and Tracking Enhancers.


Nightmares are pretty bad vs Guristas. They have extremely high EM resists.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-08-25 11:42:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
It is an elite ship against Blood Raiders, Drones, EoM and Sansha rats; a good ship against Mercs, Guristas, and Serpentis; a subpar ship against Angels.


So it really depends on where you are missioning. As for fits, typical is 4 T2 Pulses or 4 Imp Navy Tachs, a cap booster and an active shield tank. Lows are a mix of Heat Sinks and Tracking Enhancers.


Nightmares are pretty bad vs Guristas. They have extremely high EM resists.


I've heard claims that the Nightmare's lasers do enough thermal damage to make up for the Guristas' heavy EM resist - I'm not sure I believe it, but I've heard it, and given the effectiveness of Phased Plasma artillery against Guristas, there might be something to it...

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#9 - 2013-08-25 11:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Plus 100MN afterburner...

Nightmare plus rni works well now, both with afterburners, only need cap for about 10 mins so fit to that.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-08-25 12:26:20 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
It is an elite ship against Blood Raiders, Drones, EoM and Sansha rats; a good ship against Mercs, Guristas, and Serpentis; a subpar ship against Angels.


So it really depends on where you are missioning. As for fits, typical is 4 T2 Pulses or 4 Imp Navy Tachs, a cap booster and an active shield tank. Lows are a mix of Heat Sinks and Tracking Enhancers.


Nightmares are pretty bad vs Guristas. They have extremely high EM resists.


I've heard claims that the Nightmare's lasers do enough thermal damage to make up for the Guristas' heavy EM resist - I'm not sure I believe it, but I've heard it, and given the effectiveness of Phased Plasma artillery against Guristas, there might be something to it...


At best, the Nightmare will be doing 977 turret DPS, of which 407 DPS will be thermal, and 570 DPS will be EM. In terms of effective DPS vs Guristas with their ~70-80% EM resists, you're not that far ahead of an HML Drake, and lagging far behind a Cruise CNR.


"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-08-25 13:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Dato Koppla wrote:
Cadius Vect wrote:
The basis of any good nightmare fit should be this:

[Nightmare, Nightmare]
Tracking Enhancer II
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink
True Sansha Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
Tachyon Beam Laser II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

[Capacitor Control Circuit II]
[Capacitor Control Circuit I]
[Capacitor Control Circuit I]

^ the rest is up to personal taste, but you don't need much tank on a ship that projects 1000 DPS to 45km, XL shield booster, 3 resist mods and a cap booster works well.


Pretty much spot on except you want a Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II rig over the T2 CCC, it's cheaper and gives more cap stability and will fit easily, however it does require more skills. Also the fourth heat sink is better off T2 as you lose a mere 7 dps and around 50 volley damage which will not make enough difference to warrant the extra 50mil.

since the laser buff in odyssey, CCCs are a much better option than before. i haven't run the numbers but personally, i was running CCCs even before the buff because the cap they give me while warping is worth more than what elutriation rigs would have saved while shooting. also, faction tachs are actually a valid option with this ship. you only lose a few dps but gain another huge chunk of cap stability for a mere 200mil or so.

and no, you should not use the nightmare against guristas. it's a terrible pain because the DPS are subpar and its low speed and huge sig make you eat much more missile damage than you are used to against turret based rats (which you often outrange).

lastly, fitting a microwarpdrive in missions with travel time is almost mandatory, despite the capacitor penalty.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#12 - 2013-08-25 15:22:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
It is an elite ship against Blood Raiders, Drones, EoM and Sansha rats; a good ship against Mercs, Guristas, and Serpentis; a subpar ship against Angels.


So it really depends on where you are missioning. As for fits, typical is 4 T2 Pulses or 4 Imp Navy Tachs, a cap booster and an active shield tank. Lows are a mix of Heat Sinks and Tracking Enhancers.


Nightmares are pretty bad vs Guristas. They have extremely high EM resists.


Yep. They are pretty much the best ships in Amarr space and sub par anywhere else.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-08-25 16:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
Plus 100MN afterburner...

Nightmare plus rni works well now, both with afterburners, only need cap for about 10 mins so fit to that.


For some missions an AB is nice to burn to a far off gate. If you're talking about getting in range just change crystals and any NPC's will be dead long before you could burn closer.

10 minutes of cap is overkill but as long as you don't sacrifice DPS it's okay. I usually don't have to run my SB more than 4 min in a mission and that's me going in guns blazing not caring about to separate aggro in groups.

As for the CCC vs SMC rig debate it depends on what you're fitting. If you're fitting a capacitor booster in the mids having more cap is better than having recharge IMO.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#14 - 2013-08-26 03:45:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
It is an elite ship against Blood Raiders, Drones, EoM and Sansha rats; a good ship against Mercs, Guristas, and Serpentis; a subpar ship against Angels.


So it really depends on where you are missioning. As for fits, typical is 4 T2 Pulses or 4 Imp Navy Tachs, a cap booster and an active shield tank. Lows are a mix of Heat Sinks and Tracking Enhancers.


Nightmares are pretty bad vs Guristas. They have extremely high EM resists.


I've heard claims that the Nightmare's lasers do enough thermal damage to make up for the Guristas' heavy EM resist - I'm not sure I believe it, but I've heard it, and given the effectiveness of Phased Plasma artillery against Guristas, there might be something to it...


At best, the Nightmare will be doing 977 turret DPS, of which 407 DPS will be thermal, and 570 DPS will be EM. In terms of effective DPS vs Guristas with their ~70-80% EM resists, you're not that far ahead of an HML Drake, and lagging far behind a Cruise CNR.






This might very well be true. I have never really noticed that big of a drop off vs. Guristas but I also very rarely get their missions.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#15 - 2013-08-26 04:22:14 UTC
Guristas is pretty brutal on NMs because of what Daniel said, you'll end up having to tank a huge amount since you can't drop the rats fast enough combined with the fact that you can't outrange Guristas, they deal full damage due to huge sig/slow speed and jamming.

I remember messing up the triggers on The Assault in my Nightmare and I just sat there completely jammed out getting beat on by the entire room and ended up having to warp out.