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Long Range Caracal Fit?
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Cedric Kadiev
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-24 12:33:35 UTC
New pilot here. The other day I made a thread asking what the best long range missile ship is for beginners, pretty much everyone said the Caracal. I can already fly one but my fit is not so great, so does anyone have a good fit to get the most range out of it and still do some decent damage with missiles in PvP. I'd like to use it both solo and for fleet roams, not sure if that requires two different fits or not. Sorry if my question is to broad, can't really be more specific given what I know about the game.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-08-24 13:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
Hey there! I'm fairly new as well, 4 month old character. I'm currently using the following fit:

5x Rapid Light Missile Launcher (Caldari Navy Scourge)

1x Adaptive invulnerability Field
1x EM ward
2x Large Shield Extender
1x Microwarpdrive

1x Damage Control
3x Ballistic Control System

It works with T2 fits as well. A T1 fit with all support skills at 4 will get you 55 km range. You do need to have a tackler in your fleet. If you plan on using this setup for solo roaming, I would remove the 2nd LSE and put in a Scrambler.

There's a few discussions about using HM (or HAM) over RLML. When it comes to fighting cruisers and frigates, the RLM will be on par or outperform heavy launchers. The main point for that is that you keep great damage on frigates and destroyers, while still doing competitive damage on cruisers and battlecruisers.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#3 - 2013-08-24 17:32:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Ayeipsia
First off train "missile bombardment" and "missile projection" to 3 at least, preferably 4 or 5. Both skills increase missile range.

As for fits, remember, there are no mods that add to a missile's range. The only mods that impact missiles directly are ballistic controls. They increase missile damage. You want one in you low slots.

That said, there is a missile rig "hydraulic bay thruster". These increase missile range as well. Using 2 of these rigs and max caldari cruiser skills, a caracal's missile can reach 122km.

That said, unless you are shooting a stationary target, missile range is a little shorter because missiles follow your targets flight path.
Cedric Kadiev
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-08-25 00:48:04 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
First off train "missile bombardment" and "missile projection" to 3 at least, preferably 4 or 5. Both skills increase missile range.

As for fits, remember, there are no mods that add to a missile's range. The only mods that impact missiles directly are ballistic controls. They increase missile damage. You want one in you low slots.

That said, there is a missile rig "hydraulic bay thruster". These increase missile range as well. Using 2 of these rigs and max caldari cruiser skills, a caracal's missile can reach 122km.

That said, unless you are shooting a stationary target, missile range is a little shorter because missiles follow your targets flight path.

122km! Really? Do the launchers themselves and the missiles have different ranges? If so, which ones should I be using? I've already trained those two skills to level 4.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2013-08-25 01:09:19 UTC
Cedric Kadiev wrote:
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
First off train "missile bombardment" and "missile projection" to 3 at least, preferably 4 or 5. Both skills increase missile range.

As for fits, remember, there are no mods that add to a missile's range. The only mods that impact missiles directly are ballistic controls. They increase missile damage. You want one in you low slots.

That said, there is a missile rig "hydraulic bay thruster". These increase missile range as well. Using 2 of these rigs and max caldari cruiser skills, a caracal's missile can reach 122km.

That said, unless you are shooting a stationary target, missile range is a little shorter because missiles follow your targets flight path.

122km! Really? Do the launchers themselves and the missiles have different ranges? If so, which ones should I be using? I've already trained those two skills to level 4.

No. Different launchers only affect rate of fire. Only rigs and skills affect missile range (certain "short range" launchers have Tech 2 missile variants that have increased range at the expense of damage).

How did you Veterans start?
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#6 - 2013-08-25 03:34:07 UTC
Additionally, faction missiles (think caldari navy) reach further than standard t1 missiles.

And again, that is eft theoretical maximum. If I and my target are standing still or I am orbiting a stationary target at 122km, I'll hit. That rarely happens in PvP. Any change in my target's velocity and path changes that range.

For example, if I am chasing a target (assuming it can't outrun my missiles), that decreases my range by x where x is the distance my target travels from the time my missiles are launched to when they hit.

On the other hand, if I am running from a target chasing me and the target is catching up, my range will be longer.

Basically, since missiles don't hit instantly, travel time impacts their range.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#7 - 2013-08-25 08:03:19 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Additionally, faction missiles (think caldari navy) reach further than standard t1 missiles.

This is wrong, but otherwise the points made are important to remember.

If someone is traveling the missile will make the shortest line between it and the target at any given time, meaning it might spiral away from you wasting flight time going the wrong direction. They are not predictive and will lose range if the target is moving unless it's directly toward you.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-08-25 08:13:17 UTC
Great range is nice, but realistically and especially if you fly solo, there's not much point to it. You might be able to land 1-2 volleys on a ship 50-100 km away but at that point he will probably just warp out. Your engagement range is only as far as your scrambler can keep the target locked down. Anything further and he'll just warp (unless of course you're with a little fleet and have dedicated tacklers).
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2013-08-25 16:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Great range is nice, but realistically and especially if you fly solo, there's not much point to it. You might be able to land 1-2 volleys on a ship 50-100 km away but at that point he will probably just warp out. Your engagement range is only as far as your scrambler can keep the target locked down. Anything further and he'll just warp (unless of course you're with a little fleet and have dedicated tacklers).

This is actually situational.

There are a few "lol-fits" that forgoe any warp disruptor/scrambler in favor of just dishing out as much damage as possible within a wide enough range. Light Missile Launcher Talwars and gank-fit Coercers are especially effective in this capacity as they can utterly nuke even a well tanked a frigate or destroyer within 2 or 4 volleys, which is not enough time for most pilots to react (or react well).

The caveat to this is that these kinds of fits only really work against people who you KNOW will not pass up an opportunity to kill you. They are not really "hunter" fits.

How did you Veterans start?
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-08-25 16:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cephelange du'Krevviq
If you're expecting to mostly face frigates, the RLML fit is a good way to go. This is a HAM fit that's worked well enough for me; it is very tight on PG, so having AWU to V is a must if using Tech II launchers.

[Caracal, HAMacal]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Warrior II x2

Note, the missiles have a flight range of about 26km, so not "long range," per se, but unless you're doing a sniper fleet, you don't need a great deal of range. Also, if doing a sniper fleet, missiles are sub-optimal due to drastically delayed applied damage.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"