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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

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Large Collidable Object
morons.
#141 - 2013-08-24 23:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Erok Careynah wrote:
The big issue that I have with level 4's is that you're essentially forced to train for battleships, even if you have no plans of using battleships regularly.


I wish there were more income options for frigate/cruiser pilots. You could farm level 3's I guess, but they're really boring.



Try FW - steady income higher than L4 and easily done in a poorly skilled frig. Just as boring, but less detrimental to the games economy.

On a side note, 60 mill/hour is a rather low estimate if missions are run selectively - of course you wont get a steady stream, but if you have multiple characters with positive standings and save them up, running them twice a week, you'll easily exceed that.

Blitzing Dread Pirate S. easily yields me 20-25 mill in ~5 mins. No multiboxing, cheap fit.

Highsec L4s should be nerfed to hell and back and then a little more.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#142 - 2013-08-24 23:54:00 UTC
Yes, nerf hi Sec income.

Null blobs are feeling an unreasonable threat from the mighty war machine that is hi Sec. They live in fear of losing their space on a day to day level because of the infinite and inclusive ship building capacity coming out of level 4 missions.

Have no fear though Null Sec, I'm here to save you.

Send me all your ISK I will double it. Triple it if you send more than a trillion.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#143 - 2013-08-24 23:58:21 UTC
This lame ass argument again? Really?

The answer is still no, just like it has been in response to the 3 million similar "nerf high sec into a noob only starter area" threads. Not gonna happen no matter how much you cry. Casual players who refuse to join the brain dead null zombie brigade need a way to generate a little money to buy stuff. They then take that bought stuff out and get it blown up. This keeps the economy going. A simple and moderately rewarding (if boring after a while) way to generate that money comes from missions.

As to that oft-repeated canard about "risk"; heaven knows there's no more "risk" in well-secured alliance null than there is in high sec but, you don't hear high sec players constantly complaining that you mooks make too much. Give it a rest, ffs.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2013-08-25 00:31:13 UTC
High sec should only have level 1 and level 2 missions. Low sec can have level 3 missions and NPC null should be the only place for levels four and five.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Dristan Evrard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#145 - 2013-08-25 01:27:27 UTC
Nerf the SoE LP store and you're most of the way there already. As it stands, anyone who is missioning in highsec for isk and is not doing so in Osmon is likely doing it wrong.

What's more, there's no logic to having the best highsec agent in the most populous region. Jita doesn't need to be any busier.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#146 - 2013-08-25 01:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Seems like people with their agendas are out in force in this thread.

"I don't like the way other people play this game and it makes me mad!"

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#147 - 2013-08-25 02:38:58 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:


As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.



I know this is just a game. I know I am completely anonymous when I play it.

Yet I still can't lower myself to begging.

Things can't get much worse than what we did to this generation of millennials. I'm embarrassed to be one of the post boomers that allowed this to happen to our children.

Mr Epeen Cool
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2013-08-25 02:43:35 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Skill Training Online wrote:


As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.



I know this is just a game. I know I am completely anonymous when I play it.

Yet I still can't lower myself to begging.

Things can't get much worse than what we did to this generation of millennials. I'm embarrassed to be one of the post boomers that allowed this to happen to our children.

Mr Epeen Cool


Even beggars deserve more respect than people who sign their posts.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#149 - 2013-08-25 06:38:14 UTC
Sevena Black wrote:
I was about to reply I don't make 60 mill an hour doing lvl4's. Doing a bit of math makes me believe I sometimes do. I'm usually at 45 including the occasional salvaging tho.

Ofcourse everybody makes more, I'm a n00b, I need a real ship, I suck at EVE etc (apologies if I missed another useless drone-like response).

Compare this to the 1,5 bill I make in 0.0 per hour and I dont think lvl4's payout too much. For your avarege normal dude they payout close to nothing at all.

No risk = no isk seems honered.

I'll admit that the definition of "having ISK" differs between people.

TL;DR
Useless "nerf high-sec" thread



You do not make 1.5 billion an hour in null.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2013-08-25 06:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
I believe in having a bit of proof so recently ran some missions. I used Mega, MNI, Dom, DNI, Vindi. Rail Vindi was best overall. I had a booster alt in Vulture.

I have several agents with 9+ standings. I tried Blitzing as well as salvaging with Noctis. Sold LPs for ammo.

My findings - 50 mill per hour is not possible. Its realistically around 20 to 30 mill.

I also did Epic Arc and that took a good 10 hours of play time and made me 350 mill including selling sisters probes.

The only missions that you can make 50 an hour on were faction killing missions through tag selling but they have serious consequences.

Compare this to sitting in a safe null system far from empire and chaining 1.5 million rat anoms with a Thannys drones assigned to your Rattlesnake ( was watching Russians doing this today in PS ) and the L4s income looks bleak as.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#151 - 2013-08-25 07:29:55 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I believe in having a bit of proof so recently ran some missions. I used Mega, MNI, Dom, DNI, Vindi. Rail Vindi was best overall. I had a booster alt in Vulture.

I have several agents with 9+ standings. I tried Blitzing as well as salvaging with Noctis. Sold LPs for ammo.

My findings - 50 mill per hour is not possible. Its realistically around 20 to 30 mill.
Well you could if you swapped the booster alt for a 2nd rail Vindi, and there's much better items for LP than ammo, just not necessarily in the main military corps. Where has your hair been for the last week?

Who put the goat in there?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#152 - 2013-08-25 07:41:40 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I believe in having a bit of proof so recently ran some missions. I used Mega, MNI, Dom, DNI, Vindi. Rail Vindi was best overall. I had a booster alt in Vulture.

I have several agents with 9+ standings. I tried Blitzing as well as salvaging with Noctis. Sold LPs for ammo.

My findings - 50 mill per hour is not possible. Its realistically around 20 to 30 mill.

I also did Epic Arc and that took a good 10 hours of play time and made me 350 mill including selling sisters probes.

The only missions that you can make 50 an hour on were faction killing missions through tag selling but they have serious consequences.

Compare this to sitting in a safe null system far from empire and chaining 1.5 million rat anoms with a Thannys drones assigned to your Rattlesnake ( was watching Russians doing this today in PS ) and the L4s income looks bleak as.


Please post what you got per mission, loot, salvage, LP and bounty breakdowns and how many missions you did and the time taken to do them.

We have a very detailed report posted in this thread that shows you will easily get 60 to 70 million an hour three years ago. This number will be higher now due to inflation and buffs made to missiles and ships.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#153 - 2013-08-25 07:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I believe in having a bit of proof so recently ran some missions. I used Mega, MNI, Dom, DNI, Vindi. Rail Vindi was best overall. I had a booster alt in Vulture.

I have several agents with 9+ standings. I tried Blitzing as well as salvaging with Noctis. Sold LPs for ammo.

My findings - 50 mill per hour is not possible. Its realistically around 20 to 30 mill.



Bearing in mind I calculate earnings as 1000 lp/isk though last time I sold it, I earned 1400 (enough to cover time overheads in selling it for sure).

My agent gives me the following missions that I can earn more than 50mil/isk/hr *rate* in - most of them are either substantial long missions or substantially higher than 50mil/hr isk/hr earned to manage losses due to refitting and yakking to agent. As my agent almost always gives me the same mission the same distance away, I built those into my figures.

serp assault (clear or blitz)
angel pirate invasion (clear)
amarr smash supplier (clear and loot or blitz)
serp extrav (clear)
stop thief (stashed pile of item at home base so I leave without looting)
dread pirate (clear pockets till scarlet and loot implant)
serp blockade (clear)
serp/gur worlds collide (3 pocket clear or blitz with card)
amarr surprise surpise (clear n loot)

The above missions are about 60% of the what the agent gives me, I can also take some missions in the 40-50mil / hr range to minimize rejections. If I limit rejects to < 40mil/isk/hr missions I need to reject about 15% of missions. How painful to you that would be, would be based on how much you bloc your mission sessions, ie someone doing 1 - 1.5 hour of running per night would be getting most of their rejects free.

I did all my tests with a dominix and without a booster alt, although on an ongoing basis I'd use a blaster kronos for missions that suited it.

ie I'm quite sure with moderate numbers of rejections (sufficient to not trash the agent relationship, let alone rely on faction standing), I can easily make 50mil/isk/hr in a dominix.
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
#154 - 2013-08-25 07:51:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The pay is fine; the risks are far too low.


Risk/isk wise lvl 4 missions are pretty well balanced, they dont pay nearly as good as running in null sec which has a far great risk ofc.

However if you disagree about that and find that the risk for mission runners isnt high enough, there is not much a developer can do to increase the risk without messing to much with the sandbox.

You could make them more difficult like they did with incursions but people will just adept to that and also moving the more rewarding missions to low sec will not have any effect either.
Just like with level 5 missions people wont be doing them simply because they are not worth the effort and the risk vs isk ( this is where the risk/isk is not balanced ).
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2013-08-25 07:52:47 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
Level 1 mission... 2 million per hour.

Level 2 mission... 4 million per hour.

Level 3 mission... 8 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour


I believe the next in the pattern should have been 16 million per hour... not 60 million. The error is not with the mission rewards themselves but with the inflated bounties available in these missions.

16/60
8/30
4/15

round it up to say 5/15...

1/3

Bounty rewards need to be reduced by appropximately 66% or consequently adopt a new compensation ladder for level 1 - 3 missions.

Level 1 Mission... 7 million per hour.

Level 2 Mission... 15 million per hour.

Level 3 Mission... 30 million per hour.

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour.


Either a 66% decrease in one tier of missions or 350% increase in the level 1 through 3 missions.

Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.


As things are right now I make 15 times a level 1 income just begging in local averaging about 30m/hour.

This is an area that could really use some focus from the development team, the new player experience is dreadful immediately following the tutorial missions and the first epic arc for Sisters of EVE.


Show your face, troll!

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#156 - 2013-08-25 08:39:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Aura of Ice wrote:


That guy you linked literally said he was trying to do the most efficient L4 mission running possible... I'm not sure why you're bringing him up in response to someone who just said "normal" in quotes to make it really clear... That link does not post to a "normal" mission runner. I mean, his first bullet point literally says:

"High-skilled, close to perfect character in well-fitted gank Torp Golem"

20 million isk wallet ticks for L4 missions being "normal" is a pretty astounding claim... Unless you think a "High-skilled, close to perfect character in well-fitted gank Torp Golem" is the "norm"...

Yeesh...


this game is just over a decade old. Do you honestly think most of the 500k accounts in this game are scrubs?

At the very least there are tens of thousands of people with near perfect skills for whatever their chosen top end mission ship is. It would be moronic to think that this kind of mission runner is rare.


So you want to nerf the potential for newer players because of them? What should the isk/hr for perfect skill chars be then? They really still grind l4s?
Tuggboat
Oneida Inc.
#157 - 2013-08-25 09:26:51 UTC
Someone mentioned that the isk doesn't flow into the economy. I think there might be something to that. How about instead of cutting income and taking away the fun we reengineer Large Ammo so that expenses go way up. might reinvigorate economy more than cutting income. I could care less how much risk someone else is taking or opting out of. I want money. Yours will be fine.
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#158 - 2013-08-25 10:32:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Sevena Black wrote:
I was about to reply I don't make 60 mill an hour doing lvl4's. Doing a bit of math makes me believe I sometimes do. I'm usually at 45 including the occasional salvaging tho.

Ofcourse everybody makes more, I'm a n00b, I need a real ship, I suck at EVE etc (apologies if I missed another useless drone-like response).

Compare this to the 1,5 bill I make in 0.0 per hour and I dont think lvl4's payout too much. For your avarege normal dude they payout close to nothing at all.

No risk = no isk seems honered.

I'll admit that the definition of "having ISK" differs between people.

TL;DR
Useless "nerf high-sec" thread



You do not make 1.5 billion an hour in null.


It's cause... You're doing it wrong! :P
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#159 - 2013-08-25 11:01:19 UTC
embrel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Aura of Ice wrote:


That guy you linked literally said he was trying to do the most efficient L4 mission running possible... I'm not sure why you're bringing him up in response to someone who just said "normal" in quotes to make it really clear... That link does not post to a "normal" mission runner. I mean, his first bullet point literally says:

"High-skilled, close to perfect character in well-fitted gank Torp Golem"

20 million isk wallet ticks for L4 missions being "normal" is a pretty astounding claim... Unless you think a "High-skilled, close to perfect character in well-fitted gank Torp Golem" is the "norm"...

Yeesh...


this game is just over a decade old. Do you honestly think most of the 500k accounts in this game are scrubs?

At the very least there are tens of thousands of people with near perfect skills for whatever their chosen top end mission ship is. It would be moronic to think that this kind of mission runner is rare.


So you want to nerf the potential for newer players because of them? What should the isk/hr for perfect skill chars be then? They really still grind l4s?



At least half the amount you can make in null.

One of the biggest mistakes CCP has made over the last six years is to nerf null income while leaving high sec untouched.
Khemax
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2013-08-25 11:32:16 UTC
I Believe that the level 4 mission payouts are at a good level compared to other money making activities, but the level 2/3 ones could do with an increase....especially level 3s