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Sarum Family Heir recommends assault on Republic

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2013-08-24 18:16:12 UTC
Still barking up that tree, Rodj?

Next you'll be telling us the Black Eagles are secretly all werewolves.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2013-08-24 18:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Vikarion wrote:


Let me explain to you what you and Fred so often fail to grasp: the Caldari State is interested in what benefits the Caldari State, and everyone else is a distant damn.


That may be true, but it doesn't appear that the Caldari State actually know what benefits the Caldari State. Letting a madman and his thugs almost drive the country into the ground for five years certainly doesn't serve the interest of the State. From destroying the meritocracy to starting wars you can't win, letting Heth run your country was a horrible idea.

I certainly do not claim to be an expert on what benefits the Caldari State, but anyone with a pulse can see what doesn't.

Quote:
It certainly doesn't exist to be the plaything of larger empires.


Which explains why you have allied with a larger empire who's only goal is to conquer and enslave all "inferior" races. If you did not have an alliance with the Amarr, the alternative result in you being a little more sympathetic towards the Minmatar.

Quote:
That last one is why we also have, ton for ton, the most powerful and technologically advanced armed forces of the big four, as rated by independent observers such as CONCORD and the SCC.


If your armed forces are so powerful then why do you no longer hold your home world? A lot of good that technology did for you too.

Quote:
No, I think we'll keep selling "security services" to the highest bidder, even if Amarrian houses are often the highest bidder. We will keep selling TCMCs to the Khanid, and anti-Vitoc drugs and treatments to the Republic. We'll sell both sides shield systems, armor plates, nano-tech, and anything else we can get an ISK for. We'll sell mining equipment to the Gallente, exploration equipment to anyone we can, and when you can't get enough, we'll set up contracts to extract the raw materials from your own systems, to be imported to Caldari factories, where Caldari workers will turn it into more **** you will buy.

Because, yes, we're in it for the cold hard cash. We're in it for all the ISK and scrip and warehouses of goods it can get us. And because we are, everyone knows that you can trust a contract written by a Caldari, that you can bank on Caldari credit, and that you can put your life on the line with Caldari products, 'cause they won't let you down. Because we don't care about you, but we want your money, we want repeat customers, and, because we are Caldari, we don't weasel out of our obligations.

Welcome to the Caldari State, ladies and gentlemen. Let's do business.



So you claim that you are above being the playthings of larger empires while openly acknowledging that you will whore yourselves out to whoever waves the most isk at you?

That's awfully Gallentean of you.

Nothing wrong with doing business of course, I am a fervent capitalist myself (though I do have morals and standards in business) however I find your previous statement contradicts this one.


Rodj Blake wrote:

You should perhaps ask yourself about the nature of Shakor's connection to them.


Shakor's Jovian "connections" have never been verified. He's creating a legend for himself before he even becomes a legend. That's the stuff of dictators, not the leader of a Republic.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#203 - 2013-08-24 18:29:59 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Still barking up that tree, Rodj?

Next you'll be telling us the Black Eagles are secretly all werewolves.


What, they aren't?!

Dammit. Guess I'd better scrap that plan to get one as a pet...

Quote:
That's the stuff of dictators, not the leader of a Republic.


...and the difference is...
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#204 - 2013-08-24 19:09:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Lyn Farel wrote:
So, you believe that lunatics are representative of a whole civilization ? I guess you must believe as well that you are as much of a Caldari representative than Diana Kim ?


I believe that I'm more of a Caldari representative than Diana Kim. I may not agree with my kirjuunet on every subject, but she is, not to put too fine a point on it, an out-of-control psychotic traitor gripped by a fanatical totalitarian fantasy that is the antithesis of the guiding principles of Caldari society.

The difference between Kim and Laerise is that while what Laerise says is, indeed, lunacy, it at least accurately reflects the official Imperial stance and dogma, which is itself lunatic.

Lyn Farel wrote:
Following your implied reasoning, then a few years after a change is enough to sweep away centuries of a previous society?


Umm.... yes. It is. Historically has been, in fact.

Quote:
Mr. Hakatain, unless a people is exterminated, there will still be someone to sell to.


Vikarion wrote:
if the Amarr go forth to reclaim the Minmatar, we are best served by trying to make sure that the war consumes every last possible life, every last token of treasure, and every last bullet on both sides.


Do you rehearse contradicting yourself, or is it a reflex?

If every last possible life and every last token of treasure have been consumed then there is, by definition, nobody left to sell to and nothing left for them to pay with.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#205 - 2013-08-24 19:12:29 UTC
Stitcher wrote:

I believe that I'm more of a Caldari representative than Diana Kim.

What... YOU?!
Admiral Tovil-Toba would turn over in his grave from simply hearing such nonsence.
You don't deserve to be called Caldari.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2013-08-24 19:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

Quote:
That's the stuff of dictators, not the leader of a Republic.


...and the difference is...


In a Republic the people vote for representatives. These representatives then elect a leader and make decisions for the people. Fitting to their title, representatives represent the opinions and beliefs of the people who elected them. Power is usually evenly distributed.

In a dictatorship, one person seizes all power in the government. Sometimes this is done peacefully with people actually electing a dictator, and other times the dictator takes power by force. Once in a while a dictator can actually do a good job and rule properly. Most of the time, the power goes to their heads and they do all sorts of horrible things.

I thought Amarrians had a high standard of education, this is grade school stuff!

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#207 - 2013-08-24 19:39:13 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Stitcher wrote:

I believe that I'm more of a Caldari representative than Diana Kim.

What... YOU?!
Admiral Tovil-Toba would turn over in his grave from simply hearing such nonsence.
You don't deserve to be called Caldari.


You realise my first name is Yakiya, right?

Let that sink in.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2013-08-24 19:51:44 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
What... YOU?!
Admiral Tovil-Toba would turn over in his grave from simply hearing such nonsence.
You don't deserve to be called Caldari.

Verin has been practically the model Caldari citizen for longer than you've had your pilot's license. He is wise, diligent, honest, reasonable, decisive, intelligent, diplomatic, relatively humble and a skilled industrialist and combat pilot. He is everything you are not, and he deserves a lot more respect than he gets, especially from the likes of you.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

kul Shaishi
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
#209 - 2013-08-24 20:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: kul Shaishi
[q=Repentence Tyrathlion

You're an *******, Pilot Vikarion, but I can't fault your logic.

The other thing that I'll note is that if a Reclaiming were to occur, we wouldn't be talking about total war between the Republic and Empire. We'd be talking about all-out warfare claiming all civilised space, and probably the complete dismantling of CONCORD as the only people still paying attention to it would be the Jove. Which, as has already been noted, gave up on us a while ago.

And of course, we all know who really wins from that. Who benefits from the four biggest military powers disintegrating? The outlaw factions. And probably more specifically Nation. No thanks.[/quote]
the Empire will fall in the warlordism
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#210 - 2013-08-24 20:31:41 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

Quote:
That's the stuff of dictators, not the leader of a Republic.


...and the difference is...


In a Republic the people vote for representatives. These representatives then elect a leader and make decisions for the people. Fitting to their title, representatives represent the opinions and beliefs of the people who elected them. Power is usually evenly distributed.

In a dictatorship, one person seizes all power in the government. Sometimes this is done peacefully with people actually electing a dictator, and other times the dictator takes power by force. Once in a while a dictator can actually do a good job and rule properly. Most of the time, the power goes to their heads and they do all sorts of horrible things.

I thought Amarrians had a high standard of education, this is grade school stuff!


I thought the same about Gallente, but you apparently don't bother paying attention to actual politics, so that kind of spoils it.

Shakor was not elected. He kicked out the previous leader and dissolved the representative body, and then installed himself. There was an 'election' that doesn't really deserve the term, what with the fact that he was the only contender.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of 'power going to their heads'... see: Yulai, the invasion of the Empire and Colelie.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#211 - 2013-08-24 22:09:20 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Still barking up that tree, Rodj?

Next you'll be telling us the Black Eagles are secretly all werewolves.


It's a fact that Shakor spent years in exile with the Jovians.

I don't think that it's beyond the realms of possibility that they have some influence over him.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#212 - 2013-08-24 23:44:29 UTC
Dear Vikarion-baka,

Since rational debate is impossible with a thick-headed, xenophobic, ignorant, parochial sociopath like yourself, I'll simply use Captain Rella's shorthand rejoinder: A.

DeadRow
Blue Canary
Watch This
#213 - 2013-08-24 23:50:28 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Verin has been practically the model Caldari citizen for longer than you've had your pilot's license. He is wise, diligent, honest, reasonable, decisive, intelligent, diplomatic, relatively humble and a skilled industrialist and combat pilot. He is everything you are not, and he deserves a lot more respect than he gets, especially from the likes of you.


Careful, you might smudge your glasses against Stitcher's cheeks.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#214 - 2013-08-25 00:42:18 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
What... YOU?!
Admiral Tovil-Toba would turn over in his grave from simply hearing such nonsence.
You don't deserve to be called Caldari.

Verin has been practically the model Caldari citizen for longer than you've had your pilot's license. He is wise, diligent, honest, reasonable, decisive, intelligent, diplomatic, relatively humble and a skilled industrialist and combat pilot. He is everything you are not, and he deserves a lot more respect than he gets, especially from the likes of you.


Actually I'm not sure that Verin is a citizen any longer, he's been working outside the State for so long, and has worked with organisations that have worked directly against the State in the past.

No, he might be a good example of a Caldari capsuleer, but he isn't a model Caldari Citizen. I'm sure he'll agree.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#215 - 2013-08-25 00:57:04 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
What... YOU?!
Admiral Tovil-Toba would turn over in his grave from simply hearing such nonsence.
You don't deserve to be called Caldari.

Verin has been practically the model Caldari citizen for longer than you've had your pilot's license. He is wise, diligent, honest, reasonable, decisive, intelligent, diplomatic, relatively humble and a skilled industrialist and combat pilot. He is everything you are not, and he deserves a lot more respect than he gets, especially from the likes of you.


Actually I'm not sure that Verin is a citizen any longer, he's been working outside the State for so long, and has worked with organisations that have worked directly against the State in the past.

No, he might be a good example of a Caldari capsuleer, but he isn't a model Caldari Citizen. I'm sure he'll agree.


As much as I very much disagree with Mr. Hakatain on many issues, I wouldn't go this far. Mr. Hakatain tends to try to tell the truth, and he has, so far, avoided taking actions against the State. He seems to see himself as a bit of an ambassador of sorts to the Matari, and while I absolutely think that his efforts are probably foolish and futile, that's not to say that they are actively harmful to the State or performed in bad faith.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#216 - 2013-08-25 00:58:36 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Dear Vikarion-baka,

Since rational debate is impossible with a thick-headed, xenophobic, ignorant, parochial sociopath like yourself, I'll simply use Captain Rella's shorthand rejoinder: A.



We aren't having a debate. I'm telling you how you are wrong. You don't actually have anything to argue with. You just fail to understand what the State is, and who the Caldari are.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#217 - 2013-08-25 01:13:14 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
What... YOU?!
Admiral Tovil-Toba would turn over in his grave from simply hearing such nonsence.
You don't deserve to be called Caldari.

Verin has been practically the model Caldari citizen for longer than you've had your pilot's license. He is wise, diligent, honest, reasonable, decisive, intelligent, diplomatic, relatively humble and a skilled industrialist and combat pilot. He is everything you are not, and he deserves a lot more respect than he gets, especially from the likes of you.


Actually I'm not sure that Verin is a citizen any longer, he's been working outside the State for so long, and has worked with organisations that have worked directly against the State in the past.

No, he might be a good example of a Caldari capsuleer, but he isn't a model Caldari Citizen. I'm sure he'll agree.


As much as I very much disagree with Mr. Hakatain on many issues, I wouldn't go this far. Mr. Hakatain tends to try to tell the truth, and he has, so far, avoided taking actions against the State. He seems to see himself as a bit of an ambassador of sorts to the Matari, and while I absolutely think that his efforts are probably foolish and futile, that's not to say that they are actively harmful to the State or performed in bad faith.


Somebody said he flew for Electus Matari at one point, I've also heard noises about former Gurista involvement.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#218 - 2013-08-25 01:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Actually I'm not sure that Verin is a citizen any longer, he's been working outside the State for so long, and has worked with organisations that have worked directly against the State in the past.

No, he might be a good example of a Caldari capsuleer, but he isn't a model Caldari Citizen. I'm sure he'll agree.


I'm sure that I'm not regarded as a model Caldari citizen by many of my countrymen, let's put it that way.

Quote:
Somebody said he flew for Electus Matari at one point, I've also heard noises about former Gurista involvement.


I joined ReAw as it was in the process of leaving EM. This means that I was, technically and briefly, a member of that alliance, yes. At the time, however, EM was not a member of the TLF and thus at no point was I a member of an entity which was actively involved in hostilities against the State. EM's attitude towards the Caldari was decidedly chilly, and the reception I received was positively arctic at first, but I like to think their stance may have thawed slightly in recent months, and I flatter myself to believe that if it has, I may be in some small way responsible.

I should point out that Silver Night, now co-founder and co-owner of Toin-Night Research, was a member of ReAw for much longer than I, and spent much longer in EM as a result. Oddly enough, it turns out that membership of EM during that particular era of its operation wasn't incompatible with being a Caldari loyalist. I'd even argue that it still wouldn't be today, if not for their militia activity.

The Veto interlude was the product of a very foolish decision made in the grip of an episode of psychiatric disturbance. I am very grateful to them, and to Ethan Verone and Kyoko Sakoda in particular, for catching me before I did something irreversibly stupid, putting up with me for a while until I got myself sorted out, and advising me according to my best interests rather than those of Veto. or of the Guristas. I consider them to be true friends, even if I don't really know where Verone's got to of late. It took a lot of hard work and legal expenses to smooth the whole thing over, but suffice it to say that I came out of that experience and went on to not only repair, but improve my official standing with the State.

That's the metric I work off, and no other. Meaning no offense to my kirjuunen, but I'll take the dispassionate metrics of the CEP's pilot standings tracking system over the impassioned and often unreliable opinions of countrymen with whom I have deep political disagreements.

Whatever individuals may think of me, the State continues to hold me in excellent standing, and among the State's organisations, the ones that trust me the most are the Navy, the Home Guard and the State Protectorate.

I am held in similarly high regard by the Federation Navy and the Brutor Tribe. Make what you will of that information.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#219 - 2013-08-25 01:56:32 UTC
It's really easy to check in his employment history:
Mr. Hakatain was in the following corporations:

Veto. [VETO] from 2009.01.21 02:03 to 2009.02.09 02:18.
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc [RE-AW] from 2011.04.15 14:24 to this day
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc was a member of Electus Matari [-EM-] from 2010.12.30 20:35 to 2011.04.29 00:30 (and before with short gaps in between for at least one more year).

That means that Mr. Hakatain was flying with a pirate corporation that counts itself as loyal to the Guristas for roughly 20 days and with RE-AW while it still was part of Electus Matari for about 14 days.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#220 - 2013-08-25 02:34:49 UTC
I have made a point of forming my opinion on Verin Hakatain without simply reading his corporate dossier. He doesn't fly for one of the Okusaiken and that makes him a borderline outsider. He has symapthies for Jaijii that mark him as being somewhat peculiar.

Nonetheless I regard him as a... perhaps the word mentor is appropriate? I'm not sure? I don't always agree with him but I always listen to him. His wife is one of my kirjuun and a very pleasant individual. Normally I wouldn't talk about it in such detail, but it was beginning to sound as if people thought I was being disrespectful of him.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.