Intergalactic Summit

You forget, Mr. Hakatain, that one simply has trouble doing business with the Minmatar. One can do business with the Amarr. One can even do business with the Gallente. The Amarr will keep their word, and you can sue the Gallente. But the Minmatar approach to both politics and friendship is simply "only be true as long as it is to our advantage to be true". Or don't you remember them trying to steal every bit of Caldari technology they can get, and encouraging providing shelter for such traitors as Hilen Tukoss?

Not to mention the fact that they have a long history of seeing any unpleasantness occurring to any Minmatar anywhere as an attack on Minmatar everywhere, and justifying retribution. Worse, the Minmatar see all their problems as being caused by external sources, and are only willing to pursue "solutions" based on actions against outsiders.

Are the Amarr a threat? Certainly. But if the Amarr go forth to reclaim the Minmatar, we are best served by trying to make sure that the war consumes every last possible life, every last token of treasure, and every last bullet on both sides. If that occurs, then neither the Amarrian Empire nor the Republic will be in any position to threaten the two actually civilized nations in the cluster with their violent, racist, and corrupt regimes.

Is that ethical? Well, maybe not, but a racist, xenophobic, treacherous, and violent Republic will not make a better neighbor than a religious, authoritarian, expansionist, and violent Empire.

Caldari interests are best served if neither side gets aggressive. But if they do, let's not save them. If they want to burn each other to the ground, let's just give them the fuel, sit back, and see if their children can do a better job when desperation has reduced them to having no choice but to let go of their external hatreds.

Consider me unmoved by your attempts to move this discussion into the arena of religious eschatology. You do a discredit to your fellow citizens by assuming that they are somehow ignorant of the fact that present agreements with the Empire were underwritten by the Emperor Heideran who I would say had a different vision of the future of the Amarr Empire than either the Empress Sarum or indeed Merimeth Sarum. Or that indeed a Reclaiming against the Republic would require a re-assessment of State corporate policies and arrangements with the Empire insofar as the effects it has to the present status quo and balance of power in New Eden.

For in the end, I do not see the future of the Minmatar Republic as being decided by the Matari people but by the Federation and the State. Whilst one might assume due to a variety of reasons both ideological and practical that the Federation would intercede on the side of the Republic such ties are not guaranteed with the State. As such, it should be understood with both the Empire and the Republic that the number one interest being looked at for me and no doubt other Caldari citizens and leaders is not that of the Amarr or the Minmatar but that of the Caldari State.

The issue is an involved and complex one, but if all that the Republic can offer in return for the economic, military, and political advantages an alliance with the Empire has brought to the State is a promissory note to be written with Caldari blood and underwritten with State expenditure then do not be surprised if I find the prospect unappealing. If the Matari people truly wished for accord, friendship and understanding with the State then they've had more than a century to pursue it. If the final consequences of their decisions not to do so - due to having their slavery victimization complex lead them to decry the Caldari as, "Evil slavers," at any and all opportunity because they were unwilling to realize the corporate realpolitik behind political and economic arrangements with the Empire - is that the Matari people are to be thrown under the metaphorical wheels of the Imperial bus then the fault is their own.

This is not to say the Amarr Empire poses its own threats to State interests, particularly if the religious belligerence of Merimeth Sarum has proposed is adopted as Imperial foreign policy, and for myself the situation is the same as I regard the Republic -- I do not think it wise to expend Caldari blood and treasure assisting the Empire in their reclaiming against the Republic unless the gains are substantial.

So to re-iterate a point: If neither the Empire or Republic can offer substantial benefits to the State for interceding in an escalated conflict between the two then the best option is to simply maintain an armed neutrality as best possible and watch them bleed each other out. For if both belligerents remain weakened due to it, it only strengthens the State's position.

Because frankly, I'd prefer to leave the moral crusading and idealistic military campaigning to those in the Federation where they are welcome to do so.

It was worth pointing out to those Matari who haven't realised it, that the State has NO history of either evangelism or expansionism. The chances of us deciding we want your people, your treasure or your space is VERY low - we prefer to stay within OUR borders and have you stay within YOURS.

You could have had that sort of relationship with us from day one, but you decided that your future lay with the Federation - an organisation that is deeply puzzled and concerned at your decision not to give up your history, culture and self-determination to apply for membership.

It is not an exageration to say that the State can defend itself from the expansionistic tendencies of the Federation - we need the alliance with the Empire for only so long as it best serves the interests of the State to maintain it. Can you think of something that would make it less necessary? I'll leave you to chew that one over for awhile.

Hmm.. given the situations and how the empires are all beginning to fall into chaos, I cannot help but wonder if the Jovians may return to stop them from completely annihilating themselves.

I would join their side.

The State is the Empires ally, and the Empire is the only one of the big four that could pose a potential threat to the Federation if they wanted to be a threat.

You can't be the largest nation in New Eden and not expect everyone else to wonder what you're up to. In addition to being fanatical zealots (whether or not that is a bad thing is a different debate) you can't really expect subtlety to be your strong suit.



The Jovians gave up on the Empires after Vak Atioth. They would much rather let us destroy each other than risk their own nation trying to help us.

It's attitudes like Captain Gesakaarin's and TomHorn's that have earned the Caldari a reputation as cold, amoral, capitalists who would do pretty much anything to anyone (excepting perhaps another Caldari in the same corporation) in order to make a profit. It's shocking to hear that some of you would have no qualms with reaping profits from a universal war while you remain (relatively) safe on the sidelines selling arms to both sides.

I hope in the end that there are more people of integrity like Captains Hakatain and Tuulinen in the State than there are uncaring profiteers the likes of Captains Gesakaarin and TomHorn.

Idiot.

Let me explain to you what you and Fred so often fail to grasp: the Caldari State is interested in what benefits the Caldari State, and everyone else is a distant damn.

We aren't quiet about this. We avow this openly. The Caldari State exists for those who are citizens of the State, and for the Megas. It doesn't exist to spread peace and freedom through the galaxy, it doesn't exist to give aid to nations too weak to hold their own, and it certainly doesn't exist to be the plaything of larger empires. That last one is why we also have, ton for ton, the most powerful and technologically advanced armed forces of the big four, as rated by independent observers such as CONCORD and the SCC.

And yes, we will do damn well anything we please to make a profit, mother-******. What did you think we were, your grandma? Do you think we plan to run around to all the needy Federation and Republic planets, handing out candy and iskies? Maybe toss in a side of whining to our Amarrian allies..."please, oh pleeeeeaase, won't you stop making those Matties from having to work so hard?" Would that make you happy?

Gods and spirits, you are naive.

No, I think we'll keep selling "security services" to the highest bidder, even if Amarrian houses are often the highest bidder. We will keep selling TCMCs to the Khanid, and anti-Vitoc drugs and treatments to the Republic. We'll sell both sides shield systems, armor plates, nano-tech, and anything else we can get an ISK for. We'll sell mining equipment to the Gallente, exploration equipment to anyone we can, and when you can't get enough, we'll set up contracts to extract the raw materials from your own systems, to be imported to Caldari factories, where Caldari workers will turn it into more **** you will buy.

Because, yes, we're in it for the cold hard cash. We're in it for all the ISK and scrip and warehouses of goods it can get us. And because we are, everyone knows that you can trust a contract written by a Caldari, that you can bank on Caldari credit, and that you can put your life on the line with Caldari products, 'cause they won't let you down. Because we don't care about you, but we want your money, we want repeat customers, and, because we are Caldari, we don't weasel out of our obligations.

Welcome to the Caldari State, ladies and gentlemen. Let's do business.

In much the same way as the pins have no true stake in a bowling alley.

You're an *******, Pilot Vikarion, but I can't fault your logic.

The other thing that I'll note is that if a Reclaiming were to occur, we wouldn't be talking about total war between the Republic and Empire. We'd be talking about all-out warfare claiming all civilised space, and probably the complete dismantling of CONCORD as the only people still paying attention to it would be the Jove. Which, as has already been noted, gave up on us a while ago.

And of course, we all know who really wins from that. Who benefits from the four biggest military powers disintegrating? The outlaw factions. And probably more specifically Nation. No thanks.

Following your implied reasoning, then a few years after a change is enough to sweep away centuries of a previous society ? If it ever happens, it will take time. And even with hardliners pushing for it, it is hard to tell what true face it will take.

Like, say, that Heth was suddenly able to sweep away the Caldari traditional corporate culture in a few years ? Apparently not so much.



Starting with your postulate that the Empire wants to enslave "you", then I am not sure that calling the people willing to make deals with them "afraid of challenges" the best idea.



Your analogies are plain silly.