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Changing the Titan Bridge
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suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2013-08-22 07:21:25 UTC
The ironic thing about this is all the replies saying titans should be on the field

Think back... titans used to see the field much more often

But then everyone cried about it

So titans got hit with the nerf bat (repeatedly), they lost AOE DD, DD SubCaps, Tracking etc

You turned them into what they are today




It's not really that you want titans on the field... you just want an expensive km to pad your boards.

Either that or you just want to nerf the last remaining use for them.

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Smelly PirateWhore
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-08-22 11:11:45 UTC
I wholeheartedly agree that the existence of titan bridges and jump bridges is bother far too overpowering (i.e. giving an alliance the ability to jump it's ENTIRE force literally across the universe in a matter of minutes) and is partially the reason that nullsec is so devoid of life - i just can't accept that it should be possible to fly across entire regions of sov space and not see a single other pilot.

But what about increasing the fuel cost for bridging, so that it limits the number and or size of ships that can be bridged at a time? Another suggestion I would make is introducing a sort of, sensor recalibration time, similar to that which follows a decloak, upon using a bridge?


or something else that's just occurred to me, how about the bridge mechanics work by opening a wormhole with the same mechanics as an actual wormhole for a short time? Allowing 2 way travel, with a mass limit and a timer following a 2-way jump. The interesting tactic this would introduce is the possibility of opening a bridge and having a hostile force enter that bridge - introducing an actual threat to the titan
seany1212
M Y S T
#23 - 2013-08-22 12:49:23 UTC
For once, an idea of yours i agree with +1.

Projection of large fleets at the moment is far to easy being able to send them to the location of a single small ship in one move. Having to send the titan in first will cause fleets to consider what they're jumping on before popping open a bridge. One thing that needs considering first though is how are you going to get that titan to the location you want to bridge to if the cyno is being used to send people to you?
Mr Doctor
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-08-22 13:51:29 UTC
I dont like the pull idea its too messy, just make the Titan (or blops) jump with the bridged ships. Instead of getting a "bridge to xxx" subcaps get a "jump with titan" then instead of firing the ships off the titan itself jumps and the ships that opted to jump get sucked off with it. Who doesn't like being sucked off?
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#25 - 2013-08-22 14:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
seany1212 wrote:
For once, an idea of yours i agree with +1.

Projection of large fleets at the moment is far to easy being able to send them to the location of a single small ship in one move. Having to send the titan in first will cause fleets to consider what they're jumping on before popping open a bridge. One thing that needs considering first though is how are you going to get that titan to the location you want to bridge to if the cyno is being used to send people to you?

this could be easy:

a pos bridge module.


you cyno in the titan => titan land and open a bridge connected to the module in the pos => rest of fleet follow (and if you want cap, well there is a cyno already).

basically, in this scenario, titan is a gate you move using a cyno, and thus cyno can only be used by ship witha jump drive.

in a nutshell, disconnect cyno from bridging
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-08-22 15:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
My idea is this: Make titans have to use Stargates, when they get to there destination they can enter a siege mode that can be maintained past downtime, making the titan like a mobile station.

Now the titan is a mobile beachhead that must be transported to the front with lots of work and its defense is a major tactical goal. Invading someone's space is no trivial matter, and neither should use of a titan. Organizing an op to escort the titan should be just as important as forming up to attack a station.

Also the titan should have its jump range boosted and be forced to connect to a jump bridge attached to a pos or another titan forming a chain. Putting a bubble on a titan disables the ability for people to jump back and forth letting defenders disrupt the titan chain for reasons.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#27 - 2013-08-22 15:51:09 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Here is a twist for you.

Titan fishing.

The previous ship, the one associated with a hot drop mechanic that lit the cyno itself by a target, would get a role as a target locator.

The cyno, under this use, would require a script to use, and could not function in this mode at all if a cloak was fitted.

The script would allow the ship to use the cyno field generator, and target a ship with it. Similar to the logic that a hictor can use a script and target their interdiction field on a vessel for the infinipoint.

Possible to limit this to only one class of ship, but that is tricky. Might be good for the Marauder perhaps.

Now, how it would work:
The special cyno ship gets on grid with the target. Instead of the usual warp scramble / point, the exact opposite effect is used.
The ship targeted is removed from the grid entirely, and jumped to the location of the Titan that pulled it in.

Could this be turned onto the attacker? OH YES.

Now, just imagine of this ship, that was just fished to the titan, was also equipped with one of these. (It was a bait ship)
That titan gets targeted, and pulled to the titan working with the original "bait" target.

Happy waiting fleet gets tasty lunch.

Roll credits.

Im not sure that I understand what you're proposing . . . From what I can gather Arazu A is in system Old Man Star and is in fleet with an Erebus E in system Ladistier along with the rest of the fleet.

They are getting ready to hot drop a ratting Raven R in Old Man Star. As soon as the cyno opens Paladin P warps to it and activates this module on the cyno.

Paladin P then appears in system Ladistier next to the Erebus E? what good does that do him? he's now in the middle of an enemy POS and going to get thrown out at 30 km/s

Do I have an accurate description of what you mean?

Hmmm, no, not exactly.

The Arazu A ship targets the raven.
The Erebus could not operate from a POS, since the target would be auto-bounced to safety if they tried that.
The Arazu A ship engages the fishing cyno, and notifies the Erebus to reel it in.
The Erebus activates it's reel bridge, bringing the raven to it's location +5km.
The raven, having been a bait ship placed for this trap, locks the Erebus and engages it's fishing cyno.
A Leviathan activates it's reel bridge, and the Erebus finds itself in the middle of a hostile fleet, +5km from the Leviathan.

The raven is expected to be lost, the Arazu is probably toast too. Being locked down for even 5 minutes is probably fatal, although they may adjust the time for this function.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-08-22 15:52:26 UTC
suid0 wrote:
The ironic thing about this is all the replies saying titans should be on the field

Think back... titans used to see the field much more often

But then everyone cried about it

So titans got hit with the nerf bat (repeatedly), they lost AOE DD, DD SubCaps, Tracking etc

You turned them into what they are today




It's not really that you want titans on the field... you just want an expensive km to pad your boards.

Either that or you just want to nerf the last remaining use for them.


By being used on the field you mean using a DD, and being off grid and cloaked again in 30 seconds? Then after that we had groups of 30 of them sitting around instantly destroying whole fleets of subcaps with no counter other than more titans?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Sigras
Conglomo
#29 - 2013-08-22 18:33:04 UTC
Mr Doctor wrote:
I dont like the pull idea its too messy, just make the Titan (or blops) jump with the bridged ships. Instead of getting a "bridge to xxx" subcaps get a "jump with titan" then instead of firing the ships off the titan itself jumps and the ships that opted to jump get sucked off with it. Who doesn't like being sucked off?

While this would make people think twice before dropping on someone's head, It does nothing for the force projection issue.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2013-08-23 07:23:38 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
suid0 wrote:
The ironic thing about this is all the replies saying titans should be on the field

Think back... titans used to see the field much more often

But then everyone cried about it

So titans got hit with the nerf bat (repeatedly), they lost AOE DD, DD SubCaps, Tracking etc

You turned them into what they are today




It's not really that you want titans on the field... you just want an expensive km to pad your boards.

Either that or you just want to nerf the last remaining use for them.


By being used on the field you mean using a DD, and being off grid and cloaked again in 30 seconds?


There are several ships in this game that can deploy an area of effect warp disruptor that would prevent them getting off grid again. Perhaps you should look them up and learn about them. It's the players task and responsibility to get tackle.

Commander Ted wrote:

Then after that we had groups of 30 of them sitting around instantly destroying whole fleets of subcaps with no counter other than more titans?


You brought an alpha fleet.... so did we

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Sigras
Conglomo
#31 - 2013-08-23 08:15:45 UTC
thank you for concisely explaining why titans were totally overpowered and needed to be changed, now perhaps if you had something to add to the discussion on bridging . . . you know the thing this thread is actually about.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2013-08-23 08:48:26 UTC
Sigras wrote:
thank you for concisely explaining why titans were totally overpowered and needed to be changed, now perhaps if you had something to add to the discussion on bridging . . . you know the thing this thread is actually about.


Never explained any such thing, that is entirely your opinion on them. And imo you're wrong.

They weren't overpowered, they were somewhat annoying to go up against sure, but they're titans, they should be.

At least before the last nerf they were usable and saw the field.

Now they're only good for bridging, structure griding and DDing other caps. Why would or should they be deployed for anything else? especially with their price tag.

Now you're crying that they don't see the field and bridging should be changed. Not because you want them on the field, but because you know if the titan jumped with the bridge less groups of people would hot drop.

This suggestion has nothing to do with actually putting titans on the field to fight, you just want to make your space safer and dramatically reduce the risk you get hot dropped.

Add to the fact eve is supposed to be about spaceships, fights and conflict, the titan bridge lets 2+ groups of people get to the same place to actually have a fight without spending an additional 1hr+ travelling. nerf the bridge and you remove a mode of transport that actually helps facilitate fleet fights.

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2013-08-23 09:43:21 UTC
ITT: Poors mad because they have to use gates.
Nightjester
Ghost Net Industrialists
Brotherhood of Spacers
#34 - 2013-08-23 10:02:14 UTC
The problem with titans is there is no risk to the titan when bridging a fleet except the problem of ships bumping it out of a pos shield.

The solution is to make the titan bridge with its fleet which would ensure that bridging would lead to escalations.

I would also like to see any ship within 25km of the titan bridge with it so you no longer have to right click to jump if a hostile can get within 25km it should be dragged to.

When people talk about them being expensive its not true a small group of 20 active pilots can save up for one in less than a month.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#35 - 2013-08-23 10:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
suid0 wrote:
Sigras wrote:
thank you for concisely explaining why titans were totally overpowered and needed to be changed, now perhaps if you had something to add to the discussion on bridging . . . you know the thing this thread is actually about.


Never explained any such thing, that is entirely your opinion on them. And imo you're wrong.

They weren't overpowered, they were somewhat annoying to go up against sure, but they're titans, they should be.

At least before the last nerf they were usable and saw the field.

Now they're only good for bridging, structure griding and DDing other caps. Why would or should they be deployed for anything else? especially with their price tag.

Now you're crying that they don't see the field and bridging should be changed. Not because you want them on the field, but because you know if the titan jumped with the bridge less groups of people would hot drop.

This suggestion has nothing to do with actually putting titans on the field to fight, you just want to make your space safer and dramatically reduce the risk you get hot dropped.

Add to the fact eve is supposed to be about spaceships, fights and conflict, the titan bridge lets 2+ groups of people get to the same place to actually have a fight without spending an additional 1hr+ travelling. nerf the bridge and you remove a mode of transport that actually helps facilitate fleet fights.

tbh, i don't think they were OP.

the only thing that could have been was the aoe DD, but it could have stayed AOE, but with maybe less damage.

the main issue with titan imao is their bridging ability, they can hotdrop from bazilons systems, and there is nothing you can do about it.

especially in low, so what i would propose is either to prevent them opening a bridge when the cyno is in low, OR change so that a bridge is NOT related to a cyno.

instead, it would open between a titan and a POS module, the titan would be the exit side.

you want to hotdrop? cyno the titan IN, then open the bridge for the main fleet.

actually, the titan is completely risk free (unless the pilot screw up) asset giving a combat advantage (and a very huge one), this is not right, such a big advantage shall be put at risk, so it shall be on the field
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-08-23 12:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
suid0 wrote:


There are several ships in this game that can deploy an area of effect warp disruptor that would prevent them getting off grid again. Perhaps you should look them up and learn about them. It's the players task and responsibility to get tackle.


That doesn't work WHEN THERE DEAD.

suid0 wrote:

You brought an alpha fleet.... so did we


Humor is just a way to not have to argue.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2013-08-23 13:08:06 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
suid0 wrote:


There are several ships in this game that can deploy an area of effect warp disruptor that would prevent them getting off grid again. Perhaps you should look them up and learn about them. It's the players task and responsibility to get tackle.


That doesn't work WHEN THERE DEAD.


Given the titan can't DD, track or hit it... HOW DID THEY DIE? Why did you only bring 1 ?!?!?!?!?!

Seriously... if you couldn't keep a titan tackled when it has a support fleet then... what makes you think you'd be able to with a change that makes the titan jump with it's support fleet?



no troll.... did you forget to take your medication or something?

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-08-23 13:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
suid0 wrote:

Given the titan can't DD, track or hit it... HOW DID THEY DIE? Why did you only bring 1 ?!?!?!?!?!

Seriously... if you couldn't keep a titan tackled when it has a support fleet then... what makes you think you'd be able to with a change that makes the titan jump with it's support fleet?



no troll.... did you forget to take your medication or something?


For one thing the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones because you just blew up every other subcap on the field.
Then, its likely that the titan landed on grid, doomsdayed and left destroying billions in one click, without ever even having to land near a dictor.
For another thing, your entire argument is dependent on having one titan.

Your in PL, you have more than one titan right?
Probably more than two right? hmmm I wonder if that would mean with the old school doomsday any subcap brawl in null would be automatically won by PL...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2013-08-23 14:43:15 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones


*facepalm*

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-08-23 14:47:42 UTC
suid0 wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones


*facepalm*

Nothing else is left alive except a heavy interdictor. The entire fleet to kill this titan is dead and must reship. The titan can easily reship.


Also DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK KILLING ALL SUBCAPS ON GRID ISN'T AN OP ABILITY THAT SHOULDN'T BE NERFED?

Are you being a troll? Of course, PL has enough titans that they could clear the grid of carriers to.

Nothing OP about a ship that is capable of one shoting capitals and subcaps, CCP was so silly for nerfing that.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.