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CCP, what is your planned order of changing ship class stats

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Soporo
#61 - 2013-08-15 11:05:53 UTC
Nice to hear the lolEagle and lolCerb are soon getting looked at.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#62 - 2013-08-15 11:12:12 UTC
Hoarr wrote:
Ytterbium's posts are my favorite posts.

This. Big smile

Remove standings and insurance.
blair Vyvorant
Shifting Sands Trader Cartel
Dead Pixels Inc
#63 - 2013-08-15 11:15:58 UTC
wonder if the next expansion will be abyss...
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#64 - 2013-08-15 11:47:56 UTC
Soporo wrote:
Nice to hear the lolEagle and lolCerb are soon getting looked at.


The Eagle is still pretty lol, but the new Cerb is looking really nice

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#65 - 2013-08-16 00:27:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Soporo wrote:
Nice to hear the lolEagle and lolCerb are soon getting looked at.


The Eagle is still pretty lol, but the new Cerb is looking really nice


I suppose that the forums are the only place, outside of the CSM / dev forums, you can post your views on the changes.

That being said, I still find it galling that someone who knew about these changes weeks, even months, ago, makes a comment like it is all new to them, and act like they are on equal footing with the rest of we plebians.

If you accept a position on the CSM, which gives you foreknowledge of the changes at worst, and the ability to create the changes at best, you should not come here and start posting like they are a revelation to you.
Raneru
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#66 - 2013-08-16 00:55:19 UTC
I'm probably the only person that cares, but any chance of tweaking the Crusader's stats? Its pitiful compared to the Taranis, but for the love of god don't do anything to the Taranis!
Cade Windstalker
#67 - 2013-08-16 06:34:39 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Soporo wrote:
Nice to hear the lolEagle and lolCerb are soon getting looked at.


The Eagle is still pretty lol, but the new Cerb is looking really nice


I suppose that the forums are the only place, outside of the CSM / dev forums, you can post your views on the changes.

That being said, I still find it galling that someone who knew about these changes weeks, even months, ago, makes a comment like it is all new to them, and act like they are on equal footing with the rest of we plebians.

If you accept a position on the CSM, which gives you foreknowledge of the changes at worst, and the ability to create the changes at best, you should not come here and start posting like they are a revelation to you.


This isn't how the CSM works.

Also, I'm rather fond of the new Eagle. Yay 6 mid-slots!
Soporo
#68 - 2013-08-20 22:46:59 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Soporo wrote:
Nice to hear the lolEagle and lolCerb are soon getting looked at.


The Eagle is still pretty lol, but the new Cerb is looking really nice


I suppose that the forums are the only place, outside of the CSM / dev forums, you can post your views on the changes.

That being said, I still find it galling that someone who knew about these changes weeks, even months, ago, makes a comment like it is all new to them, and act like they are on equal footing with the rest of we plebians.

If you accept a position on the CSM, which gives you foreknowledge of the changes at worst, and the ability to create the changes at best, you should not come here and start posting like they are a revelation to you.


This isn't how the CSM works.

Also, I'm rather fond of the new Eagle. Yay 6 mid-slots!


6 mids? Still no damage bonus? I'm guessing they nerfed the grid, the speed or something else critical to rationalize it.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Cade Windstalker
#69 - 2013-08-20 23:55:19 UTC
Soporo wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:


Also, I'm rather fond of the new Eagle. Yay 6 mid-slots!


6 mids? Still no damage bonus? I'm guessing they nerfed the grid, the speed or something else critical to rationalize it.


Nope, swapped a high for a mid.

Also the Eagle does have a damage bonus. Also 2 range bonuses and a resists bonus.

CCP Rise wrote:

EAGLE

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty

Caldari Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
4% bonus to shield resistances

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage

Slot layout: 5H(-1), 6M(+1), 4L; 5 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 990 PWG(+115), 440 CPU(+2)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2500(+391) / 1250(-16) / 1550(+3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 1350(-25) / 255s (-80s) / 5.29/s (+1.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 180(+16) / .576 / 11720000 / 9.36s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km(+20km) / 252 / 8
Sensor strength: 25 Gravimetric(+7)
Signature radius: 140(-10)


As you can see the only things it loses are its utility high (which it didn't use much anyway), a grand total of 16 armor HP, and 25 max capacitor. However it gains a good chunk of shield HP, more lock range, more cap recharge, more PG and CPU, sensor strength, speed, and drops 10 sig radius.

Overall it's looking like a pretty solid fleet boat.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#70 - 2013-08-22 17:02:24 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Soporo wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:


Also, I'm rather fond of the new Eagle. Yay 6 mid-slots!


6 mids? Still no damage bonus? I'm guessing they nerfed the grid, the speed or something else critical to rationalize it.


Nope, swapped a high for a mid.

Also the Eagle does have a damage bonus. Also 2 range bonuses and a resists bonus.

CCP Rise wrote:

EAGLE

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty

Caldari Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
4% bonus to shield resistances

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage

Slot layout: 5H(-1), 6M(+1), 4L; 5 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 990 PWG(+115), 440 CPU(+2)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2500(+391) / 1250(-16) / 1550(+3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 1350(-25) / 255s (-80s) / 5.29/s (+1.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 180(+16) / .576 / 11720000 / 9.36s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km(+20km) / 252 / 8
Sensor strength: 25 Gravimetric(+7)
Signature radius: 140(-10)


As you can see the only things it loses are its utility high (which it didn't use much anyway), a grand total of 16 armor HP, and 25 max capacitor. However it gains a good chunk of shield HP, more lock range, more cap recharge, more PG and CPU, sensor strength, speed, and drops 10 sig radius.

Overall it's looking like a pretty solid fleet boat.


well its speed is still lower than a blackbird so overall it is a speed nerf

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Cade Windstalker
#71 - 2013-08-22 17:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Harvey James wrote:

well its speed is still lower than a blackbird so overall it is a speed nerf


Except that the old Eagle's speed was even lower and it still has a double range bonus and a shield tank, meaning it needs that base speed less. Overall it's a pretty minor complaint. Would I like it to be higher? Sure, it's the slowest HAC right now, but it also has the highest effective range of any HAC and therefore can probably get away with being a little slow.

(Also I'm assuming you meant Moa, not Blackbird)
Xavier Perez
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-08-22 17:46:04 UTC
I want my skillpoints refunded in indy ships if they're going to change the indy ships around. I spent a month training for the iteron 5 because it was the best. I'm sure other folks feel the same about the ship classes they fly a lot too.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#73 - 2013-08-22 18:07:59 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Harvey James wrote:

well its speed is still lower than a blackbird so overall it is a speed nerf


Except that the old Eagle's speed was even lower and it still has a double range bonus and a shield tank, meaning it needs that base speed less. Overall it's a pretty minor complaint. Would I like it to be higher? Sure, it's the slowest HAC right now, but it also has the highest effective range of any HAC and therefore can probably get away with being a little slow.

(Also I'm assuming you meant Moa, not Blackbird)


No blackbird has 190 m/s and its an e-war ship yet it has higher speed than a HAC ...

But my point being is that yes it got a buff but every other ship has gotten a much larger buff making the eagle look like its effectively getting a nerf

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#74 - 2013-08-22 19:07:24 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Soporo wrote:
Nice to hear the lolEagle and lolCerb are soon getting looked at.


The Eagle is still pretty lol, but the new Cerb is looking really nice


I suppose that the forums are the only place, outside of the CSM / dev forums, you can post your views on the changes.

That being said, I still find it galling that someone who knew about these changes weeks, even months, ago, makes a comment like it is all new to them, and act like they are on equal footing with the rest of we plebians.

If you accept a position on the CSM, which gives you foreknowledge of the changes at worst, and the ability to create the changes at best, you should not come here and start posting like they are a revelation to you.


What? What's a revelation to me now? I just said that I thought the new Cerb is looking really nice.

I argued as strongly as I could for a different role for the Eagle, but the decisions was made otherwise.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#75 - 2013-08-22 19:07:41 UTC
(Obviously I failed on purpose because grrr hisec)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#76 - 2013-08-22 19:11:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
(Obviously I failed on purpose because grrr hisec)


poor eagle ... so much potential just wasted by CCP but thanks for trying anyway..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#77 - 2013-08-22 19:21:27 UTC
The most surprising thing about the eagle is that is unused in its current configuration .. so why would it be used more just because of a slight buff to Rails?

I just look at its competitors
- Talos great blasterboat kiter
- Naga strong sniper
- Deimos now strong active tanker / shield rail kiter
- Moa - strong brawler
- Ferox - strong brawler or decent sniper
-Thorax - versatile
- Brutix - strong brawler active tank or shield gank fit

And i can't see how the eagle will be used over any of them especially considering the cost and SP required to use it..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Cade Windstalker
#78 - 2013-08-22 20:20:58 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
The most surprising thing about the eagle is that is unused in its current configuration .. so why would it be used more just because of a slight buff to Rails?

I just look at its competitors
- Talos great blasterboat kiter
- Naga strong sniper
- Deimos now strong active tanker / shield rail kiter
- Moa - strong brawler
- Ferox - strong brawler or decent sniper
-Thorax - versatile
- Brutix - strong brawler active tank or shield gank fit

And i can't see how the eagle will be used over any of them especially considering the cost and SP required to use it..


Of your examples the Talos and Naga use over-sized guns and don't tank or move as well as the Eagle. The Deimos is better for solo or small-gang work with no Logi on-grid, the MOA doesn't have the damage projection of the Eagle while doing the same damage, the Ferox has the tank but not the range or damage, the Thorax... well I'm not sure why it's on this list. It has the same damage but a tracking bonus instead meaning it's filling a completely different role, and the Brutix which loses slightly in damage unless it trades its tank bonus and has no damage projection bonus.

For the Eagle you can go for a short range DPS fit that gets hilarious optimal on Medium Blasters or a Rail fit that doesn't have to fit any range mods to hit out to 150 with T2 range ammo, and still hits to 40+ with medium Anti-Matter.

I really think this represents a very potent mix of Tank, DPS, and Damage Projection, especially for small to medium sized gangs with Logi support. Between the buffs to Rails, the extra mid-slot, and the tracking bonus on Javelin ammo it might be interesting to see what a "short-range" Rail fit Eagle fleet could do with Logi and web support from either T3 cruisers or Huginns. You certainly couldn't pull range on them very effectively since even without a Sebo or boosts the Eagle should be able to lock and shoot to ~110 easily for ~250 DPS. That's certainly no Naga but it also shouldn't explode hilariously if bombed or looked at funny.
Galdrak
Interplanetary Trade Federation
#79 - 2013-08-24 15:54:33 UTC

I'm not saying I want Maurauders to be OMG amazing in PvP, I'd just like them to be top of the heap somewhere even if they're not terribly cost effective.[/quote]

+1
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#80 - 2013-08-26 21:32:44 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
The most surprising thing about the eagle is that is unused in its current configuration .. so why would it be used more just because of a slight buff to Rails?

I just look at its competitors
- Talos great blasterboat kiter
- Naga strong sniper
- Deimos now strong active tanker / shield rail kiter
- Moa - strong brawler
- Ferox - strong brawler or decent sniper
-Thorax - versatile
- Brutix - strong brawler active tank or shield gank fit

And i can't see how the eagle will be used over any of them especially considering the cost and SP required to use it..


Of your examples the Talos and Naga use over-sized guns and don't tank or move as well as the Eagle. The Deimos is better for solo or small-gang work with no Logi on-grid, the MOA doesn't have the damage projection of the Eagle while doing the same damage, the Ferox has the tank but not the range or damage, the Thorax... well I'm not sure why it's on this list. It has the same damage but a tracking bonus instead meaning it's filling a completely different role, and the Brutix which loses slightly in damage unless it trades its tank bonus and has no damage projection bonus.

For the Eagle you can go for a short range DPS fit that gets hilarious optimal on Medium Blasters or a Rail fit that doesn't have to fit any range mods to hit out to 150 with T2 range ammo, and still hits to 40+ with medium Anti-Matter.

I really think this represents a very potent mix of Tank, DPS, and Damage Projection, especially for small to medium sized gangs with Logi support. Between the buffs to Rails, the extra mid-slot, and the tracking bonus on Javelin ammo it might be interesting to see what a "short-range" Rail fit Eagle fleet could do with Logi and web support from either T3 cruisers or Huginns. You certainly couldn't pull range on them very effectively since even without a Sebo or boosts the Eagle should be able to lock and shoot to ~110 easily for ~250 DPS. That's certainly no Naga but it also shouldn't explode hilariously if bombed or looked at funny.

I think a ROF bonus instead of a damage bonus might actually fit well with it though. In fact I think long range and high ROF should be a rail gun thing in general when discussing ships bonused for Rails specifically..

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