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For your next ice interdiction -- a plan that will work.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#21 - 2013-08-22 03:44:38 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Last time the cancer of Eve did this, ice prices rose into the 1100's.
And that was before Raivi created the mechanism of a finite high sec ice supply.

As much as I hate them, there is no doubt that goons, if they are motivated, can and will interdict high sec ice to severely impact the price.

The only wild card is now that null sec is overflowing with those hugely buffed ice belts, there is the chance that goons can't control all the bot miners in null who can fill the gap that high sec can't.

It is one thing to get all the moon goo providers onboard to create a tech cartel.
It is something else to get all your line members, plus who knows how many other line members of other cartels, especially after just coming out of war, to curtail their null sec ice botting, when the potential for profit is huge.

I'm still waiting to see proof of the rampant nullsec bot mining you say is going on, especially since CCP seem to believe most of the mining bots are in highsec, in particular The Forge.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Mroe Bree
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-08-22 03:49:04 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Last time the cancer of Eve did this, ice prices rose into the 1100's.
And that was before Raivi created the mechanism of a finite high sec ice supply.

As much as I hate them, there is no doubt that goons, if they are motivated, can and will interdict high sec ice to severely impact the price.

The only wild card is now that null sec is overflowing with those hugely buffed ice belts, there is the chance that goons can't control all the bot miners in null who can fill the gap that high sec can't.

It is one thing to get all the moon goo providers onboard to create a tech cartel.
It is something else to get all your line members, plus who knows how many other line members of other cartels, especially after just coming out of war, to curtail their null sec ice botting, when the potential for profit is huge.


That was also before the barge rebalancing. A 15 million isk fit capable of pulling in 15+ million/hour on a tiny SP investment simply didn't exist during the last interdiction. Isotope prices of 1100 would put that income at 20+ while reading, doing homework, watching TV... Any actual success of this interdiction should be self-balancing.

Ganking is NOT working from what I'm seeing in Osmon -- it currently has only one ice anomaly (out of 3 that pop) and it's being cleared in record time.

I have no comment about the nullsec mining, bot or otherwise. It's out of scope for a discussion of a highsec Caldari ice interdiction.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#23 - 2013-08-22 03:51:23 UTC
Mroe Bree wrote:
The tracking of 30,000 character wallets is a very solvable problem. You don't have to audit every wallet every day. If all you do is randomly audit 10% of your members once a month (works out to 100 a day, or 4 an hour) you'll have ammo for some high profile hangings.
So, how is life on Jupiter, and how come S/2000 J 11 is what you count your months by? What's the ping like from over there?
Mroe Bree
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-08-22 04:04:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mroe Bree wrote:
The tracking of 30,000 character wallets is a very solvable problem. You don't have to audit every wallet every day. If all you do is randomly audit 10% of your members once a month (works out to 100 a day, or 4 an hour) you'll have ammo for some high profile hangings.
So, how is life on Jupiter, and how come S/2000 J 11 is what you count your months by? What's the ping like from over there?


10% of 30,000 is 3000. 3000/30 = 100. 100/24 = 4.16

I know I'm a product of the US education system, but I'm pretty sure I got all that right.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2013-08-22 04:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mroe Bree wrote:
10% of 30,000 is 3000. 3000/30 = 100. 100/24 = 4.16

I know I'm a product of the US education system, but I'm pretty sure I got all that right.
Ok, fair enough. I somehow read it as auditing everyone every month at 10% per [some odd period of time].
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-08-22 04:50:51 UTC
Mroe Bree wrote:

You guys need to step up your game, and do it soon. The ice miners are laughing at you.



Good.

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Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-08-22 05:03:10 UTC
Phooey on all of you! I don't need your stinkin' ice! I make my own ice in my freezer! If I need more than I can make in a couple of hours, I'll get it from my local supermarket for only a buck!

P Bleaaaahhhh!!!

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Spurty
#28 - 2013-08-22 05:18:20 UTC
I no understand good

Interdicting ice hurts NPC station dwelling high sec mission runners how again?

Own goal is an own goal no matter how you spin it.

Carry, ignore the snickering from the dark shadows

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Rekon X
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-08-22 05:24:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Day 4, people think its over.


It started?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#30 - 2013-08-22 05:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Spurty wrote:
I no understand good

Interdicting ice hurts NPC station dwelling high sec mission runners how again?
Who said they're supposed to be hurt by it?
Sol Kal'orr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-08-22 07:13:45 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Last time the cancer of Eve did this, ice prices rose into the 1100's.
And that was before Raivi created the mechanism of a finite high sec ice supply.

As much as I hate them, there is no doubt that goons, if they are motivated, can and will interdict high sec ice to severely impact the price.

The only wild card is now that null sec is overflowing with those hugely buffed ice belts, there is the chance that goons can't control all the bot miners in null who can fill the gap that high sec can't.

It is one thing to get all the moon goo providers onboard to create a tech cartel.
It is something else to get all your line members, plus who knows how many other line members of other cartels, especially after just coming out of war, to curtail their null sec ice botting, when the potential for profit is huge.


Aren't most nullsec Caldari Icebelts held by the CFC? If so how does raising the price of an item your members can easily farm hurt you?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2013-08-22 07:44:11 UTC
Rekon X wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Day 4, people think its over.


It started?


No you are right, it is perfectly safe to park your freighter in these belts and stuff them full of ice. Please by all means park up your orca and offgrid t3 boosters while you are at it.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-08-22 07:53:10 UTC
You stole my idea. :(

Oh wait the crap regarding the cyno alts
and assuming they all have unallocated SP
isn't part of that.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#34 - 2013-08-22 08:37:47 UTC
Mroe Bree wrote:
And just like that, hundreds of times more impact than ganking a couple of orcas, a freighter or two and a dozen mackinaws. It should be possible to mine out every empire ice belt in 1-2 minutes, utterly blocking all empire ice production.

I love how most people talking about the ice interdiction try to undersell the numbers to make their point. Since most of us can read killboards, we know that "a couple" means about 20, "a freighter or 2" means 7, and "a dozen mackinaws" means more than 450 mining barges and exhumers. Admittedly I'll need to dig through the EVE-Kill board at some point, since a lot of the kills don't get to the miniluv kb if the killing blow falls to a character outside of Goons.

At the end of the day, the prices have been spiked enough to turn a pretty good profit already. I'm still betting the weekend will show considerably more activity, and there's plenty of miners now lacking their billion+ isk clones. The tear mail pretty much makes it all worth it. If we just mined all the ice, we'd get a lot fewer tears.

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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-08-22 09:01:05 UTC
Mroe Bree wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Mroe Bree wrote:
The tracking of 30,000 character wallets is a very solvable problem. You don't have to audit every wallet every day. If all you do is randomly audit 10% of your members once a month (works out to 100 a day, or 4 an hour) you'll have ammo for some high profile hangings.
So, how is life on Jupiter, and how come S/2000 J 11 is what you count your months by? What's the ping like from over there?


10% of 30,000 is 3000. 3000/30 = 100. 100/24 = 4.16

I know I'm a product of the US education system, but I'm pretty sure I got all that right.

How the frell did you understand what she was referring to ?? o_O
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-08-22 09:25:36 UTC
Mroe Bree wrote:

You guys need to step up your game, and do it soon. The ice miners are laughing at you. Soon newbros will figure out it only takes a few days of training to make 15+M an hour while doing homework in a fit that's maybe 15 minutes of mining after insurance payout -- and then the occasional gank won't matter at all for purposes of interdiction.

I'll keep an eye out on number reds (temporarily red, I love the goonie antics and respect a good chunk of CFC) in local this weekend. If participation doesn't ramp up you can call this interdiction in favor of AFKers and bots.



15 million per hour is poverty. Also, go back to hoarding liquid ISK please. Spewing carebear garbage on the forums generally is a really bad idea.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
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