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For your next ice interdiction -- a plan that will work.
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Mroe Bree
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-08-21 23:15:14 UTC
The barge re-balancing is a success. Unlike the last interdiction, isotope prices only spiked on speculation and are currently deflating fast. Ice belts are being mined out at the same speed as pre-interdiction, and, in the case of Osmon even faster. Based on that, the current interdiction is a mixed success at best.

So how could an interdiction actually work?

Cyno alts.

I used the unallocated skill points granted to my cyno alts for learning skill refunds to get them into a Procurer (mining barge I), with a tech1 ice harvester (mining IV prereq) and tech1 mining laser upgrade (also mining IV). Even without an Orca boost that's still pulling in about 14M an hour per each cyno alt -- but it's not all about ISK, is it?

Just imagine if every cyno alt of every CFC member and friends did that. They could be positioned at every belt location, and deployed with alliance intel. Alliance wallet tracking could ensure nobody sells the ice (except possibly to alliance holdings).

And just like that, hundreds of times more impact than ganking a couple of orcas, a freighter or two and a dozen mackinaws. It should be possible to mine out every empire ice belt in 1-2 minutes, utterly blocking all empire ice production.

You're welcome, CFC. Next time have someone with a clue architect your interdiction.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#2 - 2013-08-21 23:20:07 UTC
Mroe Bree wrote:


You're welcome, CFC. Next time have someone with a clue architect your interdiction.





You may as well just unsubscribe now.

Otherwise you won't know what hit you.

Trust me. I KNOW

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#3 - 2013-08-21 23:36:53 UTC
Like i said in the other thread

1:buy a shitload of ice
2:tell everyone you're going to do an ice interdiction
3:people buy ice in Jita because they know price will increase
4:don't gank any ships
5:sell your ice BEFORE prices drop
6:make massive profit without losing a single ship

I'm sure that's what the goonies did this time =)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2013-08-22 00:05:40 UTC
Day 4, people think its over.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#5 - 2013-08-22 00:08:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Day 4, people think its over.

The lull before the storm?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mroe Bree
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-08-22 00:18:48 UTC

You guys need to step up your game, and do it soon. The ice miners are laughing at you. Soon newbros will figure out it only takes a few days of training to make 15+M an hour while doing homework in a fit that's maybe 15 minutes of mining after insurance payout -- and then the occasional gank won't matter at all for purposes of interdiction.

I'll keep an eye out on number reds (temporarily red, I love the goonie antics and respect a good chunk of CFC) in local this weekend. If participation doesn't ramp up you can call this interdiction in favor of AFKers and bots.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#7 - 2013-08-22 00:20:11 UTC
Certain groups of players love to find an empty part of the sandbox and kick sand at nobody while crowing that they are king of the castle.

I never tire of the drama it causes.

Mr Epeen Cool
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-08-22 00:24:47 UTC
Yeah a friend on comms mentioned he made about 6 orca fulls today without being bothered.

I saw a Hulk in Osmon try mining. I was talking with an aquaintence about possibly ganking them when people arrived and did the dirty deed. The Skiffs and Procurers just shrugged and kept mining.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-08-22 00:29:48 UTC
Mroe Bree wrote:

You guys need to step up your game, and do it soon. The ice miners are laughing at you. Soon newbros will figure out it only takes a few days of training to make 15+M an hour while doing homework in a fit that's maybe 15 minutes of mining after insurance payout -- and then the occasional gank won't matter at all for purposes of interdiction.

I'll keep an eye out on number reds (temporarily red, I love the goonie antics and respect a good chunk of CFC) in local this weekend. If participation doesn't ramp up you can call this interdiction in favor of AFKers and bots.



what "newbros" are you talking about here
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#10 - 2013-08-22 00:33:05 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
The Skiffs and Procurers just shrugged and kept mining.



They didn't shrug.

They were not even at the keyboard to witness it. I guarantee it. I'd a been outta there for awhile.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-08-22 00:59:22 UTC
This is a very interesting idea! Thank you for your input, I will be sure to send someone to speak to you for further information as soon as humanly possible!

Best regards and greetz,

Blawrf "Maverick" McTaggart
Admiral of the First Order
Director of Reconnaissance and Intelligence
All Around Nice Guy
GoonWaffe Corporation
GoonSwarm Federation Alliance
Clusterfrak Coalition

"let's make the big blue donut a reality!"
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#12 - 2013-08-22 01:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
You know people have like, mined during hulkageddon, and moved stuff into jita during burn jita? and yet people go "OMG NOT 100% kill rate on barges = fail" (PS: buy the isotopes....although, I got rid of mine at 1400 a week or so back, so hold onto them if you want Twisted )


Totally no explosions happening

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#13 - 2013-08-22 01:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Rhivre wrote:
You know people have like, mined during hulkageddon, and moved stuff into jita during burn jita? and yet people go "OMG NOT 100% kill rate on barges = fail" (PS: buy the isotopes....although, I got rid of mine at 1400 a week or so back, so hold onto them if you want Twisted )


Totally no explosions happening

Hah the forums break the link by adding "amp;" quelle surprise!

The forums can't parse links, so I fixed it for others wrote:
http://miniluv.apoff.com/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=10

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Daimon Kaiera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-08-22 02:04:12 UTC
You're forgetting that a lot of people have bought their mining permits, and are thus exempt from the interdiction.

.... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.
Vinni Starseeker
MMMMMA
#15 - 2013-08-22 02:48:44 UTC
Mroe Bree wrote:
I used the unallocated skill points granted to my cyno alts for learning skill refunds to get them into a Procurer (mining barge I), with a tech1 ice harvester (mining IV prereq) and tech1 mining laser upgrade (also mining IV). Even without an Orca boost that's still pulling in about 14M an hour per each cyno alt -- but it's not all about ISK, is it?


Next time try using an Ice Harvester Upgrade 1 rather than a Mining Laser Upgrade. If you are going to mine ice at least do it right...
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-08-22 02:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Mroe Bree wrote:
The barge re-balancing is a success. Unlike the last interdiction, isotope prices only spiked on speculation and are currently deflating fast. Ice belts are being mined out at the same speed as pre-interdiction, and, in the case of Osmon even faster. Based on that, the current interdiction is a mixed success at best.

So how could an interdiction actually work?

Cyno alts.

I used the unallocated skill points granted to my cyno alts for learning skill refunds to get them into a Procurer (mining barge I), with a tech1 ice harvester (mining IV prereq) and tech1 mining laser upgrade (also mining IV). Even without an Orca boost that's still pulling in about 14M an hour per each cyno alt -- but it's not all about ISK, is it?

Just imagine if every cyno alt of every CFC member and friends did that. They could be positioned at every belt location, and deployed with alliance intel. Alliance wallet tracking could ensure nobody sells the ice (except possibly to alliance holdings).

And just like that, hundreds of times more impact than ganking a couple of orcas, a freighter or two and a dozen mackinaws. It should be possible to mine out every empire ice belt in 1-2 minutes, utterly blocking all empire ice production.

You're welcome, CFC. Next time have someone with a clue architect your interdiction.


the problem is that people who think they have a clue are giving us such great advice like "track the wallets of 30000 characters" and "compromise your cyno chains" and your entire idea requires an unimaginably massive number of cyno alts that nobody in the game has

so, you know, somebody with an actual clue architected this interdiction

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-08-22 02:57:53 UTC
Well, the other flaw in the plan is that it assumes goons are going to take up mining which is about as likely as goons funding themselves by renting their space out to bots and carebears.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#18 - 2013-08-22 03:19:04 UTC
Last time the cancer of Eve did this, ice prices rose into the 1100's.
And that was before Raivi created the mechanism of a finite high sec ice supply.

As much as I hate them, there is no doubt that goons, if they are motivated, can and will interdict high sec ice to severely impact the price.

The only wild card is now that null sec is overflowing with those hugely buffed ice belts, there is the chance that goons can't control all the bot miners in null who can fill the gap that high sec can't.

It is one thing to get all the moon goo providers onboard to create a tech cartel.
It is something else to get all your line members, plus who knows how many other line members of other cartels, especially after just coming out of war, to curtail their null sec ice botting, when the potential for profit is huge.
Mroe Bree
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-08-22 03:38:19 UTC
Andski wrote:


the problem is that people who think they have a clue are giving us such great advice like "track the wallets of 30000 characters" and "compromise your cyno chains" and your entire idea requires an unimaginably massive number of cyno alts that nobody in the game has

so, you know, somebody with an actual clue architected this interdiction


The tracking of 30,000 character wallets is a very solvable problem. You don't have to audit every wallet every day. If all you do is randomly audit 10% of your members once a month (works out to 100 a day, or 4 an hour) you'll have ammo for some high profile hangings. The chilling effect will be sufficient. You don't need 100% compliance, 95% or so should be achievable with existing wallet API and a very simple script. After all, you're looking for only one transaction type over a small time period.

And as you said, 30,000 characters. If even 10,000 of those were sent to live in highsec for a month after a week of training it would completely shut down empire ice production far, far far FAR more effectively than what I'm seeing now. Not all of those need to be crucial cyno alts.
Mroe Bree
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-08-22 03:42:14 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Well, the other flaw in the plan is that it assumes goons are going to take up mining which is about as likely as goons funding themselves by renting their space out to bots and carebears.


I will admit this is a huge leap. That's why I personally used otherwise dormant alts and the short amount of skilling (comprable to a gank catalyst alt).

Ice mining is completely afk-able, so an unused alt could be dedicated to the cause without undue hardship to the owner. You can check the alt every 10-15 minutes while roaming, ratting, pos bashing...

It'll be a hard sell, for sure. Nothing on this scale is ever easy. But *if* pulled off, somehow, it'd be devastatingly effective.
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