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Out of Pod Experience

 
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About that Harmonic Orchestra recording...

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#61 - 2013-08-21 20:07:23 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Well, I'm getting a copy of it on CD in what I assume is a 144Kbps format. Is there any chance of maybe getting an imprint in Vinyl done from the original recording? I'm guessing there's more than a few audiophiles willing to check if Eve has sound or not?

Simple question, Dev answers get double chocolate chip cookies Blink



Because of your thread I youtubed the whole thing and listened to it all over again.

Thank you.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#62 - 2013-08-21 20:45:25 UTC
Once again, it's Science vs. Religion.

Factual proof that not only shows most people cannot tell the difference, but also that they are usually horrendously wrong, well outside of any statistical average that one would expect from a reasoned comparison.

vs.

The belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof -dictionary.com) that "well, I can hear the difference".

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#63 - 2013-08-21 21:05:26 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
Once again, it's Science vs. Religion.

Factual proof that not only shows most people cannot tell the difference, but also that they are usually horrendously wrong, well outside of any statistical average that one would expect from a reasoned comparison.

vs.

The belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof -dictionary.com) that "well, I can hear the difference".



I guess my 7 years of musical training tricks me into what I'm hearing.

Oh brother. Roll

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#64 - 2013-08-21 21:20:29 UTC
John 18:38

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#65 - 2013-08-21 21:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:
Once again, it's Science vs. Religion.

Factual proof that not only shows most people cannot tell the difference, but also that they are usually horrendously wrong, well outside of any statistical average that one would expect from a reasoned comparison.

vs.

The belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof -dictionary.com) that "well, I can hear the difference".



I guess my 7 years of musical training tricks me into what I'm hearing.


Was that "musical" training specifically working as a studio and/or audio engineer?

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#66 - 2013-08-21 21:43:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
Well, I'm getting a copy of it on CD in what I assume is a 144Kbps format. Is there any chance of maybe getting an imprint in Vinyl done from the original recording? I'm guessing there's more than a few audiophiles willing to check if Eve has sound or not?

Simple question, Dev answers get double chocolate chip cookies Blink



Because of your thread I youtubed the whole thing and listened to it all over again.

Thank you.

Your welcome.

Don't supposse a CSM member might be interested in raising the possibility of a limited run of Vinyl should the original recordings exist?

Be willing to pay a premium for it, say $100 if it gets it done. Maybe Kickstarter? Blink

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Whitehound
#67 - 2013-08-21 21:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Eram Fidard wrote:
Once again, it's Science vs. Religion.

Factual proof that not only shows most people cannot tell the difference, but also that they are usually horrendously wrong, well outside of any statistical average that one would expect from a reasoned comparison.

vs.

The belief (confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof -dictionary.com) that "well, I can hear the difference".

No, just you are wrong. It is not science versus religion, but science versus nature. It always has been.

It is not the difference, but a difference these people are hearing. When you talk about the difference, then you are talking about what has been lost in the digital conversion. It is this one difference, which science proves cannot be heard by most people and it is also what science only cares about.

There is however more than one difference here and you do not get that. Hearing a difference does not mean people are lying about the difference, but they say that they actually hear a difference and one science does not care about.

When sound is being converted from analogue into digital does this not happen through a divine event, but it passes through electronic equipment and each equipment posses a sound characteristic. Anything, from microphones to speakers, posses a sound characteristic. This includes A/D and D/A converters, too.

The way an A/D converter works requires it to hold the signal for a certain time until it has been digitized. There are many implementations for A/D converters, but a popular one is a successive approximation of the input signal by using a comparator and to compare the input to the output of a D/A converter until all bits have been matched. In order to achieve this is the input signal stored in a capacitor. The method is nothing short of brutal to anyone familiar with analogue electronics. Even capacitors have a characteristic.

If one gets to hear music, which is being played through the same equipment chain from which the A/D converter receives it, then it already posses a characteristic before it is being digitized. This makes it rather difficult to hear a difference, because there is not any. You are listening to the same preprocessed sound and it is important that you do, because it is required for a scientific comparison or else you would be changing the conditions of the tests.

For audiophile people is it all about finding the right analogue components and to match them so that it produces the best sound. There is certainly a difference that one can hear. Just find the nearest pro hifi store, find their demo room and listen to various combinations of equipment. You can hear it, too.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#68 - 2013-08-21 21:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are one of the results of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear, high end audio gear is also important for a good sound, a decent amp providing 7 watts RMS sounds a lot better than some cheap mickey mouse amp boasting 400 watts of bullshit power (PMPO,MAX etc)

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#69 - 2013-08-21 22:09:55 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

Was that "musical" training specifically working as a studio and/or audio engineer?



1 year of that in addition to 7 years of actual music studies and performing. Concurrent actually.

I know how to 'hear a room' quite well thank you.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#70 - 2013-08-21 22:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are one of the results of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear, high end audio gear is also important for a good sound, a decent amp providing 7 watts RMS sounds a lot better than some cheap mickey mouse amp boasting 400 watts of bullshit power (PMPO,MAX etc)



The Trolls are just going to deny your real life experience.

It's the Way of the Interweb.

edit:

God ‏@TheTweetOfGod

"Aren't I allowed to have an opinion?" is what people say when they have a stupid opinion.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#71 - 2013-08-21 22:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are one of the results of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear, high end audio gear is also important for a good sound, a decent amp providing 7 watts RMS sounds a lot better than some cheap mickey mouse amp boasting 400 watts of bullshit power (PMPO,MAX etc)



The Trolls are just going to deny your real life experience.

It's the Way of the Interweb.

edit:

God ‏@TheTweetOfGod

"Aren't I allowed to have an opinion?" is what people say when they have a stupid opinion.


Heh 15 years of working to get a good sound into an acoustically hostile environment has made me a bit of an audio snob, quality gear and a decent recording make all the difference.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#72 - 2013-08-21 22:19:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are one of the results of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear, high end audio gear is also important for a good sound, a decent amp providing 7 watts RMS sounds a lot better than some cheap mickey mouse amp boasting 400 watts of bullshit power (PMPO,MAX etc)



Except that analog recordings have frequency response limitations that exist *within* the range of human hearing. Those limitations depend on the recording media used. That warmth and clarity you perceive is being generated by the playback equipment and not the recording. The original sound engineers involved in the mastering also have a bit to do with it.

That's why tube preamps are so darn awesome in any home audio setup, because they bring that analog "feeling" to the party whether the original source material is analog or digital.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#73 - 2013-08-21 22:25:33 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:

Was that "musical" training specifically working as a studio and/or audio engineer?



1 year of that in addition to 7 years of actual music studies and performing. Concurrent actually.


O.K. so you you are a musician and not a audio or studio engineer, check.












☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Whitehound
#74 - 2013-08-21 22:30:02 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Except that analog recordings have frequency response limitations that exist *within* the range of human hearing. That warmth and clarity you perceive is being generated by the playback equipment and not the recording.

Nonsense. Echoes, hall, vibrations, distortions, dampening and other effects all take place at any frequency. Even when you measure the frequency range of a component do you use a measuring device, which in itself posses characteristics that you cannot deny. You still do not get that these all play a role in what we hear in the end.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Whitehound
#75 - 2013-08-21 22:36:29 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
O.K. so you you are a musician and not a audio or studio engineer, check.

Most studio engineers can play an instrument and musicians know about their instruments and have a good hearing.

Trolls on the other hand do not need intelligence and in fact troll better without.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#76 - 2013-08-21 22:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Doc Fury wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:



1 year of that in addition to 7 years of actual music studies and performing. Concurrent actually.


O.K. so you you are a musician and not a audio or studio engineer, check.




I feel sorry for you and your sad, bored life.

So much determination and gumption, going to waste on Interwebz Forumz.

edit: Actually....denying professional experience which is indeed applicable to this situation is approaching the area of personal attack.

I'm reading your stuff REAL closely now. I'd tread lightly if I were you.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#77 - 2013-08-21 22:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Doc Fury wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
For once I agree with Whitehound, there is a difference between digital and analogue recordings. It's not so much about the sound, as about the warmth and clarity of the sound, both of which are one of the results of the sounds that a human shouldn't be able to hear, high end audio gear is also important for a good sound, a decent amp providing 7 watts RMS sounds a lot better than some cheap mickey mouse amp boasting 400 watts of bullshit power (PMPO,MAX etc)



Except that analog recordings have frequency response limitations that exist *within* the range of human hearing. Those limitations depend on the recording media used. That warmth and clarity you perceive is being generated by the playback equipment and not the recording. The original sound engineers involved in the mastering also have a bit to do with it.

That's why tube preamps are so darn awesome in any home audio setup, because they bring that analog "feeling" to the party whether the original source material is analog or digital.

I partially agree, some of the warmth is from the components used to produce the sound, a decent amp and speakers can make the world of difference to an otherwise lacklustre recording.

If however you compare the same piece of music, one of which was recorded digitally and the other analogue, there is a difference in the way each sounds, even when played back on the same equipment. It's one of the reasons some prefer vinyl over CD, FLAC over MP3 etc, they just sound better because there is no artificial "clipping" of the frequencies, in short they're not so clinical.

Tube preamps are awesome, they're well worth the investment if you can afford them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#78 - 2013-08-21 22:47:13 UTC
Bah! Give it up Jonah. It's just feeding him at this point.

He's the kind who would argue that "2001" is a terrible science fiction film because it doesn't have any lazerz pew-pew.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#79 - 2013-08-21 22:52:32 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Bah! Give it up Jonah. It's just feeding him at this point.

He's the kind who would argue that "2001" is a terrible science fiction film because it doesn't have any lazerz pew-pew.

On that note Arthur C Clarke should sue Apple for "copyright infringement™", I saw an iPad/ tablet prototype in 2001.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#80 - 2013-08-21 22:54:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Whitehound wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Except that analog recordings have frequency response limitations that exist *within* the range of human hearing. That warmth and clarity you perceive is being generated by the playback equipment and not the recording.

Nonsense. Echoes, hall, vibrations, distortions, dampening and other effects all take place at any frequency. Even when you measure the frequency range of a component do you use a measuring device, which in itself posses characteristics that you cannot deny. You still do not get that these all play a role in what we hear in the end.


If the tape and/or recording gear being used has an upper frequency limit of 18Khz, any vibrations or distortions that occur at 19Khz or above (for instance) are not recorded. That's all I am saying, there are limits to what gets captured/recorded. I am not arguing the equipment in the chain has no affect on the final product because they definitely do, and is one of the reasons DOLBY noise reduction was created.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.