EVE General Discussion

"CCP should be worried about what the future players of DUST/WoD are going to think" - They won't and they don't. These are completely different audiences! Most players of DUST, a shooter, are not going to give a damn about what the players of FiS think or have done, and they won't consider CCP's behaviour against them to be of any particular significance. Likewise, I think the average player of WoD probably isn't going to even be aware that the publisher of the game even HAS other MMOs under their belt. Even if every current Eve-O player raged against CCP when they launched these games up to and including logging into the games and delivering diatribes in the general channel, it probably would not affect any of the players' purchasing decisions. The people that think this sort of reasoning is sound are either deluding themselves or have a short memory. Surprise surprise, much like the average voter, the average gamer only seems to remember the last 30 days of news. Sony, Ubisoft, EA, Activision, have all done things far more heinous than what CCP has done so far, do people seem to care? ..not really. Maybe a small minority. Like 1% of the publisher's userbase, probably less. You think that what CCP is doing is going to somehow echo across the gaming collective conscious in perpetuity? Come on.

In regards to CSM

"CCP will worry about negative perception from their peers." - When I read this quote, I laughed out loud. The developer's peers? They won't think any less of them, and why should they - the developers are still out there busting their asses on trying to get the players what they want, as they always want. As for management's peers? They will either regard their peers with sympathy in having to deal with "such entitled players", or smirk and say "I told you so" over the revolutionary (yet silly) idea of including a player-elected council in the design process. I personally hate MTs and am loathe to defend any company that even considers them, but in the grand scheme of things CCP has hardly wronged you in comparison to how other companies have treated their players, and once the delicious link juice that the media is so eager to drink up runs dry CCP isn't even going to have to worry about what you might try to get the media to think about them.

"CSM is complicit/CSM are shills" - I've seen some people bashing the CSM and outside of the almost contemptuous attitude I've seen from more than a few of them in some threads, this isn't really a fair criticism. It's very easy to point the finger at them when things aren't going your way, but they're still busting their asses to get stuff done for you - however ineffective their tactics may be. A big part of this problem comes from the fact that the CSM organization in general has lacked the testicular fortitude to put their foot down. For example: -WHY- would CSM delegates agree to an NDA when they are supposed to be player advocates? They are stuck in them now, don't get me wrong, but why wouldn't CSM1 say "No, we aren't going to agree to an NDA, that's against the whole idea of having an oversight committee." They painted themselves into their own corner, which is unfortunate, but they are at least trying. Of course, that leads me into...

"CSM is powerless" - No, they are not COMPLETELY powerless, but they have set themselves up to be far weaker than they ought to be as an oversight committee. This is probably a cynical observation but it seems important to me to point out that I have never seen altriusm in a nullsec alliance member. In fact, it's a trait that's antithetical to nullsec survival, so it's probably bred out of them. Thus, most if not all of CSM is probably looking out for themselves. The Mittani's current media/forum/blog tantrum is poignantly reminiscent of watching the FoH Everquest kerfuffle that lead to Tigole getting a game design job. They all agreed to NDAs so they could be part of the design process and thus add game design experience to their resume. Others may or may not have nullsec superiority agendas, or are looking to feed their ego or want a biannual trip to Iceland, or want to get re-elected for Epeen Length, or whatever. Chances are, they are not working for you - they are working for themselves, and personally the only guy I think that doesn't have some kind of personal agenda is the oldschool game developer because he's done all this crap already.

Statements like "resignations/breaking NDAs are not effective tactics in getting what we want" are BS, and CSM members that think they are a critical component of interfacing with CCP are starting to believe their own BS/press. As someone in the games industry I can't outright claim that I advocate NDA violation, and I don't in practice, but martyrs for a cause are FAR more enduring than politicians. If minute notes (minute notes FFS, we're not talking about game design - not to mention, I'm sure the leaker would be smart enough to redact specifics of business decisions) were anonymously leaked, what is CCP going to do? Fire CSM for reporting to its constituents? Yeah, that'll look good in the news. "CSM threatens to resign en masse in response to CCP stonewalling". Yeah, that'll look good in the news. Or let us not forget the GSL among others wielding the threat of revenue disruption that got the CSM created in the first place. They have the power to make far more noise than they are currently doing, and they aren't because making that noise is a threat to their precious CSM seats.

(cont)

Hi, you must be new around here.

tl;dr



Edit1:

Ok I actually read it now.

What you say has been said before, you just summarized it.
In reality no one cares that much about this game.
They will just move on.

But I value you putting effort into this.

TL;DR:

I'm not anyone special.
CCP doesn't need your money to survive, but would like it.
CCP isn't going to play stupid media games with amateur politicians.
CSM made a dog's breakfast of handling the outrage over the last 3 months.
The MIttani is acting like a putz.
CCP doesn't care about what future players of its other games are gonna think.
CSM doesn't deserve to get ragged on for being one of the only groups to actually do anything
CSM needs to grow some balls if it wants to actually advocate for its players
People outside the game think the players of this game are getting what they deserve for being assholes
Cancel your account
Stop giving CCP money
Write a paper letter to Hilmar
Think about making a competing game product if you're pissed off enough
I'm in the players' corner even though it means nothing to me

Well i meant get it off your chest :)

At any rate, I agree with everything you've said, and you've taken the time to make a great post.

I read the post. Pretty well-presented, but requires prior background knowledge in order to be understood. However, as it seems your target audience is those who are already involved (even if as spectators), your post is fine. Long? Sure, but so is the game itself, so no biggie.

Wow, I sound like an English teacher. I should quit that.

Thanks for sharing.

So someone that doesn't know enough about eve, just made an opinion on "why the company won't listen" based on what he knows about different companies.... You be trollin'

so you really don't know the real issues, why post then? you can't make a whole pie with half the ingredients so that means most of the post was irrelevant and futile. We act this way because the game allows us to talk to our friends after a hard days work, it gives us spare time that we otherwise watch mush on the telly. This game is every bit as social as every day life, the reason why we don't listen to you maybe because you don't want to enjoy that this socially predominate game. What would you do if the friends you have made in eve where gone because eve is gone? Play another game?

Point being you miss why we can act the way we do because you don't dive in to multiple depths and concepts of what has been created. For this I can't take you seriously.

An interesting post and while I find myself agreeing with some elements, others are, at their core: Flawed.

Without knowing what is occurring in the background you've filled holes in the story then supplied them as inherent truths. This is incorrect.

As someone who also 'works in the Industry' I've learned never to assume, I mark and note postulation as just that, postulation.

A fine collection of thoughts but, as I said, flawed on a fundamental level as you've simply generated connective bridges between available facts, connective bridges which I can tell you with authority that are misplaced.

That being said, I encourage you to continue to speculate but be mindful of the nature of speculation.

If I've made mistakes you're more than welcome to correct me in front of everyone else instead of acting mysteriously about it.

Ahh, I can vaguely point out your err but it does not mean that I am at liberty to correct it. An unfortunate consequence of being on the CSM.