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Changing the Titan Bridge

Author
Sigras
Conglomo
#1 - 2013-08-20 07:58:28 UTC
Ive thrown this idea around in several different threads as a partial solution to some fleet logistics and force projection problems, but I think it's time that this idea had a thread of its own.

The Problem
Fleet logistics has become a trivial matter, and current bridge mechanics encourage aggressive play with little to no risk on the part of the Titan. This along with the massive birth rate of Titans has led to the age of the hotdrop, a no risk high reward strategy

The Solution
Reverse the titan bridge from a "push" to a "pull" EG a person usually clicks on a titan and ends up near the cyno. With this change the person would click on the cyno and end up near the titan.

This will accomplish a few things:
1. getting more titans into battle, into an area of danger
2. Assisting alliances more on defense and somewhat stunting their offensive capabilities.
3. Reducing the hotdrop issue or at least adding risk to it
4. Better Defenses and slightly weaker offense will allow more smaller alliances a place in 0.0

Thoughts?
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#2 - 2013-08-20 14:37:43 UTC
Hey Sigras,

while i actually have fled from this stuff into w-space years ago and have not thought about it much lately i really like that approach.

+1 from me.

It will likely not really affect massive fleet battles but the stupid ops where some guys drop 20 ships and a triage carrier onto a single cruiser.

I might as well as add "slight" increase in jump fuel cost for titan bridging of about 300% Big smile

Cheers
Gal
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#3 - 2013-08-20 14:42:29 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Ive thrown this idea around in several different threads as a partial solution to some fleet logistics and force projection problems, but I think it's time that this idea had a thread of its own.

The Problem
Fleet logistics has become a trivial matter, and current bridge mechanics encourage aggressive play with little to no risk on the part of the Titan. This along with the massive birth rate of Titans has led to the age of the hotdrop, a no risk high reward strategy

The Solution
Reverse the titan bridge from a "push" to a "pull" EG a person usually clicks on a titan and ends up near the cyno. With this change the person would click on the cyno and end up near the titan.

This will accomplish a few things:
1. getting more titans into battle, into an area of danger
2. Assisting alliances more on defense and somewhat stunting their offensive capabilities.
3. Reducing the hotdrop issue or at least adding risk to it
4. Better Defenses and slightly weaker offense will allow more smaller alliances a place in 0.0

Thoughts?


I like the reversal idea and I think it's quite ludicrous that Titans sit as "Bridging Monuments" in POS's. On the other hand they cost a shedload of materials, time and organisation so I can see why some don't field them but I like the idea but as to the impact I am not educated enough in Titans to comment.

A well structured and presented idea though so you get a +1 from me.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#4 - 2013-08-20 15:19:17 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Ive thrown this idea around in several different threads as a partial solution to some fleet logistics and force projection problems, but I think it's time that this idea had a thread of its own.

The Problem
Fleet logistics has become a trivial matter, and current bridge mechanics encourage aggressive play with little to no risk on the part of the Titan. This along with the massive birth rate of Titans has led to the age of the hotdrop, a no risk high reward strategy

The Solution
Reverse the titan bridge from a "push" to a "pull" EG a person usually clicks on a titan and ends up near the cyno. With this change the person would click on the cyno and end up near the titan.

This will accomplish a few things:
1. getting more titans into battle, into an area of danger
2. Assisting alliances more on defense and somewhat stunting their offensive capabilities.
3. Reducing the hotdrop issue or at least adding risk to it
4. Better Defenses and slightly weaker offense will allow more smaller alliances a place in 0.0

Thoughts?


I like the reversal idea and I think it's quite ludicrous that Titans sit as "Bridging Monuments" in POS's. On the other hand they cost a shedload of materials, time and organisation so I can see why some don't field them but I like the idea but as to the impact I am not educated enough in Titans to comment.

A well structured and presented idea though so you get a +1 from me.


well rule nr 1 as i learned it was dont fly what you cant afford to loose in that light a titan needs to be in POS and so be flown. I too gave this a +1 but to be fair this cant be implementated before caps are rebalanced

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Alundil
Rolled Out
#5 - 2013-08-20 15:40:16 UTC
+1 as I too would like to see titans used in actual combat scenarios as opposed to simply being a glorified "people mover" as they are most commonly used now.

I'm right behind you

Cade Windstalker
#6 - 2013-08-20 16:25:53 UTC
It's an intriguing idea but I think it would more likely cause people to stop using Titans all-together as a means of entering combat since they let you skip a relatively small number of jumps in most cases and deploying a Titan onto the field in even a moderate sized battle means you are likely to lose it regardless of the battle outcome unless you deploy absolutely overwhelming force to defend it.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-08-20 17:00:24 UTC
I approve, this would allow pos jump bridges to push as now so you can end up with clever strategies from that.

And if you cant risk the titan, then you shouldnt have one.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#8 - 2013-08-20 17:47:45 UTC
While this idea does bring more risk to the most risk adverse group in the game(titan pilots, not nullbear ratters who are afraid of the boogeyman), It doesn't do much for the whole "force projection' side of the equation.

Adding a mass limit like a wormhole to Titan bridges would help out quite a bit. You could even add this to OPs current idea.

Titan "push" bridge - tighter mass limit.
Titan "pull" bridge - higher mass limit.

This way, with more risk on the titans end, you can have more rewards on the "force projection' end.

Another idea would to simply make Titan bridges not work within X km of Force fields, eliminating the POS nesting Titans, or the "just the tip" style of "out of POS" combat.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Sigras
Conglomo
#9 - 2013-08-21 07:58:11 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
It's an intriguing idea but I think it would more likely cause people to stop using Titans all-together as a means of entering combat since they let you skip a relatively small number of jumps in most cases and deploying a Titan onto the field in even a moderate sized battle means you are likely to lose it regardless of the battle outcome unless you deploy absolutely overwhelming force to defend it.

Perhaps an upgrade to its command or combat capabilities would be in order in light of this change as it would be perceived by most as a nerf.

Probably in the area of survivability
Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2013-08-21 10:11:56 UTC
I quite like this idea. Although whether it gets implemented or not, is another matter.

+1

As far as mass limits are concerned, I believe they would only really affect smaller groups. Large entities would simply use more titans.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-08-21 10:32:00 UTC
+1 from me, titans need to be brought to the field.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-21 10:41:18 UTC
+1

Combat that slowly escalates is always better than digital combat.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#13 - 2013-08-21 11:26:28 UTC
Make titan bridging possible only outside of POS forcefield (like links are going to be in odyssey 1.1) and problem will be solved without escalations "cruiser gang > supercapital fight".

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Disiri Skai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-08-21 11:38:40 UTC
Its like you people come up with a solution to a problem that really doesnt exist.

All this would do is put the final nail on the use of titans. There would be no point for any small group to ever use one because their titan would die the first time its use to bridge. And for large groups they will only use them when they know there gonna have overwhelming victory. Sounds familiar...like the current use of supers...only use when you know there not gonna be lose and by those that own a ton of them.
waltari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-08-21 11:55:05 UTC
I would +1 this idea under one condition, make the doomsday again AOE, in that case it makes sense, without AOE DD it doesnt make any sense whatsoever.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#16 - 2013-08-21 15:31:53 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I quite like this idea. Although whether it gets implemented or not, is another matter.

+1

As far as mass limits are concerned, I believe they would only really affect smaller groups. Large entities would simply use more titans.


I don't see this being a disadvantage to smaller groups as smaller = less mass = less Titans required and if Rule #1 is applied of "Can't afford to lose it don't buy it\fly it" then it would possibly bring more Titans out for intriguing fights.

As for large groups...well more force projection should mean more risk and thus more mass = more Titans. Make people really think about there use and if they require that Titan or the tactical\psychological impact a Titan could have on the field.

As stated above, not a Titan Pilot, so these are just my general thoughts so don't flame me for my ignorance but feel free to educate me, I'm all for that.
Sigras
Conglomo
#17 - 2013-08-21 20:14:38 UTC
Disiri Skai wrote:
Its like you people come up with a solution to a problem that really doesnt exist.

Is it your position that titan hot dropping is not currently a problem? because I feel like that isnt going to be a very popular position.

Disiri Skai wrote:
All this would do is put the final nail on the use of titans. There would be no point for any small group to ever use one because their titan would die the first time its use to bridge. And for large groups they will only use them when they know there gonna have overwhelming victory. Sounds familiar...like the current use of supers...only use when you know there not gonna be lose and by those that own a ton of them.

And you just showed the perfect reason this change is necessary. Nobody ever thinks of Titans as weapons of defense, everyone only ever thinks of titans as offensive weapons to force project large fleets to distant battlefields.

Think of the buff this is to defense. To be able to sit a titan in a cyno jammed system and pull reinforcement fleets in; I would even allow it to bring in carriers and dreadnoughts This would open up incredible defensive opportunities for smaller alliances who dont have massive swaths of space to defend.

For the risk averse, you could still sit the Titan in a POS and pull fleets into the shield bubble with you, but honestly, if youre not willing to use your titan, you probably shouldnt have it.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#18 - 2013-08-21 20:29:32 UTC
Here is a twist for you.

Titan fishing.

The previous ship, the one associated with a hot drop mechanic that lit the cyno itself by a target, would get a role as a target locator.

The cyno, under this use, would require a script to use, and could not function in this mode at all if a cloak was fitted.

The script would allow the ship to use the cyno field generator, and target a ship with it. Similar to the logic that a hictor can use a script and target their interdiction field on a vessel for the infinipoint.

Possible to limit this to only one class of ship, but that is tricky. Might be good for the Marauder perhaps.

Now, how it would work:
The special cyno ship gets on grid with the target. Instead of the usual warp scramble / point, the exact opposite effect is used.
The ship targeted is removed from the grid entirely, and jumped to the location of the Titan that pulled it in.

Could this be turned onto the attacker? OH YES.

Now, just imagine of this ship, that was just fished to the titan, was also equipped with one of these. (It was a bait ship)
That titan gets targeted, and pulled to the titan working with the original "bait" target.

Happy waiting fleet gets tasty lunch.

Roll credits.
Sigras
Conglomo
#19 - 2013-08-21 22:58:13 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Here is a twist for you.

Titan fishing.

The previous ship, the one associated with a hot drop mechanic that lit the cyno itself by a target, would get a role as a target locator.

The cyno, under this use, would require a script to use, and could not function in this mode at all if a cloak was fitted.

The script would allow the ship to use the cyno field generator, and target a ship with it. Similar to the logic that a hictor can use a script and target their interdiction field on a vessel for the infinipoint.

Possible to limit this to only one class of ship, but that is tricky. Might be good for the Marauder perhaps.

Now, how it would work:
The special cyno ship gets on grid with the target. Instead of the usual warp scramble / point, the exact opposite effect is used.
The ship targeted is removed from the grid entirely, and jumped to the location of the Titan that pulled it in.

Could this be turned onto the attacker? OH YES.

Now, just imagine of this ship, that was just fished to the titan, was also equipped with one of these. (It was a bait ship)
That titan gets targeted, and pulled to the titan working with the original "bait" target.

Happy waiting fleet gets tasty lunch.

Roll credits.

Im not sure that I understand what you're proposing . . . From what I can gather Arazu A is in system Old Man Star and is in fleet with an Erebus E in system Ladistier along with the rest of the fleet.

They are getting ready to hot drop a ratting Raven R in Old Man Star. As soon as the cyno opens Paladin P warps to it and activates this module on the cyno.

Paladin P then appears in system Ladistier next to the Erebus E? what good does that do him? he's now in the middle of an enemy POS and going to get thrown out at 30 km/s

Do I have an accurate description of what you mean?
Sigras
Conglomo
#20 - 2013-08-22 06:52:47 UTC
waltari wrote:
I would +1 this idea under one condition, make the doomsday again AOE, in that case it makes sense, without AOE DD it doesnt make any sense whatsoever.

Why does it not make sense without the DD?
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