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Foundations of Freedom: An Open Essay

Author
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-08-20 06:33:07 UTC
Cyrus Alabel wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Do not think yourself beyond the reach of Empires, sir. Think of the words you've spoken here when next you are ensnared in CONCORD's net, and ask whether you are truly without bound or master.


And yet, we can leave the space controlled by Concord. We can go to nullsec, literally defined by its lack of theirs or empire control. Or the space we find in the wormholes. They are difficult lives, but they are options outside of Concord's jurisdiction.

But why?...
Even if I might be 'ensnared in CONCORD', my life belongs to the State and it is my duty to serve the State. No one will stop me from my duty, even CONCORD.
Besides, you can't serve the State neither in nullsec, nor in wormhole. You might be able only to hide there. Just like dissidents, exiles, traitors and other outcasts. I guess there were a lot of them after Heth-haan become clearing the State from unprofessional material, planted by nepotism.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#82 - 2013-08-20 20:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
'Freedom' is said in many ways. If we don't distinguish them properly and speak of one freedom like it's the same as another, then we confound them falsely and make a category mistake. The difference than between what the Scriptures and what the Minmatar religions talk about is not in what freedom is, but in what freedom they talk about.

The Amarr religion doesn't see freedom as privilege, either: The freedom it speaks about is a potential that humans need to realize. While Amarr recognizes that there is a freedom from external interference and that there is a freedom that consists in having the power and resources to fulfill and go through with ones choices and a diversity of other freedoms. But beyond these freedoms there is a freedom from internal constraints of base instincts and appetites.

He who is determined merely by his urges can be free from external constraints, but should he be so? The Amarr religion tells us that man should only be free from external constraints, if he has some fundamental measure of control over his evil urges, and should otherwise be controlled by means external to him.

The Amarr religion tells us furthermore that the most praiseworthy freedom is that which consists in realizing our potential of moral autonomy, to free ourselves from our inner urges and thus make us also free from external circumstances in our pursuit to live righteous and act according to goodness.

It is in this divine spark, the potential to moral autonomy, that we are are called to realize by God, that the divine rests within us. And it is our responsibility to let this spark inflame our hearts and prepare ourselves to burn with this flame so that we can illuminate this world of darkness and reconcile with God, who became man and who upheld humankind until we broke away from him by our own doing, and thus be truly free through Him and prosper within Him, realizing that we are all one in Him.

Freedom, understood to mean moral autonomy, is therefore not a privilege, but the requirement to receive the gift and privilege of reconciliation.

Θεός Σωτήρ Ψυχῇ

- N. Mithra
Havohej
Cretus Incendium
Electus Matari
#83 - 2013-08-21 01:30:11 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Havohej wrote:
We are capsuleers, now... there was a time when we truly had to worry about our governments. And then, their programs endowed us with the power to annihilate entire fleets of their security forces all by ourselves. And in the end, what means does any government have by which to enforce its will upon us but their military power? An Infomorph is a government, Pilot. Think on that for a time.


Do not think yourself beyond the reach of Empires, sir. Think of the words you've spoken here when next you are ensnared in CONCORD's net, and ask whether you are truly without bound or master.

CONCORD can shoot at me. So can you. A corporation or alliance's ability to aggress me does not impinge upon my freedom to do as I please, no matter how large they are... or how powerful their ships and weapons.

Strike us like matches, 'cause everyone deserves the flames.

OOC Forums @ Backstage

Nicolas Merovech
Doomheim
#84 - 2013-08-21 01:36:56 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Nicolas Merovech wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
What makes a man free?...

Absence of home will make a man free.
Absence of love will make a man free.
Absence of friends will make a man free.
Absence of possessions will make a man free.
Absence of duty will make a man free.
Absence of law will make a man free.
Absence of moral will make a man free.
Absence of responsibility will make a man free.
Absence of religion will make a man free.
Absence of traditions will make a man free.

Now answer my question: do YOU want to be free?..


Close, but not quite, Kim-haani. While an excellent point, your view is another extreme on the spectrum; true freedom is found within balance. The Seidaa of the the Seyrvind clan in the Great Sobaki desert of Matar have a saying: "Remove all of your chains, and you will be a slave to your desires. Master yourself, and you shall find your liberty." I'm sure you would agree, coming from a culture that so greatly emphasizes discipline.

True freedom as well as true liberty are evil in its purest forms. Whether I would delve into the search, I won't be looking for either freedom or liberty, but rather for those, who tend to practice them. You know, in order to destroy them. For the sake of whole humanity.



Why destroy when you can repurpose? Educating others as to what is best is by far a a better course of action than destroying them. Such an endeavor will seem difficult, or impossible, at times. However, it is a never ending struggle where progress is measured in the longterm. Violence is the exact opposite: it is easy and impulsive; though it rarely results in positive change.

Dr. Nicolas A. Merovech, Ph. D, M.D.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#85 - 2013-08-21 01:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Havohej wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Havohej wrote:
We are capsuleers, now... there was a time when we truly had to worry about our governments. And then, their programs endowed us with the power to annihilate entire fleets of their security forces all by ourselves. And in the end, what means does any government have by which to enforce its will upon us but their military power? An Infomorph is a government, Pilot. Think on that for a time.


Do not think yourself beyond the reach of Empires, sir. Think of the words you've spoken here when next you are ensnared in CONCORD's net, and ask whether you are truly without bound or master.

CONCORD can shoot at me. So can you. A corporation or alliance's ability to aggress me does not impinge upon my freedom to do as I please, no matter how large they are... or how powerful their ships and weapons.


Try not paying your licensing fee, then.

No matter where you go in Space, Concord is your landlord. They let you rent space that they own.

I don't much like it myself.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-08-21 02:04:56 UTC
Nicolas Merovech wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

True freedom as well as true liberty are evil in its purest forms. Whether I would delve into the search, I won't be looking for either freedom or liberty, but rather for those, who tend to practice them. You know, in order to destroy them. For the sake of whole humanity.



Why destroy when you can repurpose? Educating others as to what is best is by far a a better course of action than destroying them. Such an endeavor will seem difficult, or impossible, at times. However, it is a never ending struggle where progress is measured in the longterm. Violence is the exact opposite: it is easy and impulsive; though it rarely results in positive change.

Repurpose? Maybe. Reprocess - more likely.
Educating can be feasible, but not if the subjects under discussion are gallenteans. Just look at peoples like Ixiris, they are unable to learn anything. It is better to simply reprocess them and use their biological material for more useful applications.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Cyrus Alabel
Azure Wrath
#87 - 2013-08-21 02:34:48 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Cyrus Alabel wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Do not think yourself beyond the reach of Empires, sir. Think of the words you've spoken here when next you are ensnared in CONCORD's net, and ask whether you are truly without bound or master.


And yet, we can leave the space controlled by Concord. We can go to nullsec, literally defined by its lack of theirs or empire control. Or the space we find in the wormholes. They are difficult lives, but they are options outside of Concord's jurisdiction.

But why?...
Even if I might be 'ensnared in CONCORD', my life belongs to the State and it is my duty to serve the State. No one will stop me from my duty, even CONCORD.
Besides, you can't serve the State neither in nullsec, nor in wormhole. You might be able only to hide there. Just like dissidents, exiles, traitors and other outcasts. I guess there were a lot of them after Heth-haan become clearing the State from unprofessional material, planted by nepotism.


I am not saying that you are wrong for wanting to serve the state, much as I object to HOW you serve the state. I am merely saying that you -can- be beyond the reach of the empires.

This is beside the point, but what do you seek to do in the world? I mean, apart from the destruction of the Federation, or the creation of a Federation-free world. Is there anything else you live for?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-08-21 06:19:59 UTC
Cyrus Alabel wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Cyrus Alabel wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Do not think yourself beyond the reach of Empires, sir. Think of the words you've spoken here when next you are ensnared in CONCORD's net, and ask whether you are truly without bound or master.


And yet, we can leave the space controlled by Concord. We can go to nullsec, literally defined by its lack of theirs or empire control. Or the space we find in the wormholes. They are difficult lives, but they are options outside of Concord's jurisdiction.

But why?...
Even if I might be 'ensnared in CONCORD', my life belongs to the State and it is my duty to serve the State. No one will stop me from my duty, even CONCORD.
Besides, you can't serve the State neither in nullsec, nor in wormhole. You might be able only to hide there. Just like dissidents, exiles, traitors and other outcasts. I guess there were a lot of them after Heth-haan become clearing the State from unprofessional material, planted by nepotism.


I am not saying that you are wrong for wanting to serve the state, much as I object to HOW you serve the state. I am merely saying that you -can- be beyond the reach of the empires.

This is beside the point, but what do you seek to do in the world? I mean, apart from the destruction of the Federation, or the creation of a Federation-free world. Is there anything else you live for?

I live for the State and for citizens of the State.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#89 - 2013-08-21 06:49:35 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Freedom is not automatically nice, that's the bit that people forget.


Indeed, many free Minmatar are downright nasty.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-08-21 13:22:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Ah, Rodj. How refreshing to hear that kind of knee-jerk racism from somebody who ISN'T Diana Kim for a change.

Of course, the fact that she used to be a welcome change from you just goes to show that "refreshing" is a relative term. After extended proximity to a fedo, even burning rubber becomes an enticing alternative - neither, however, is actually a pleasant aroma.

Lest you think I'm just being a smart-ass, I'd like to point out that, while accurate, the statement "many free Minmatar are downright nasty" remains equally true when you remove the word "free" and indeed when you substitute any other ethnicity... which means that the statement can more efficiently be rendered as "many people are downright nasty". There's not really a need to specify "free Minmatar" there because the last time I checked, free Minmatar were people, and thus included within the statement

As are you, Rodj - thank you for demonstrating it in action.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#91 - 2013-08-21 14:24:02 UTC
Cpt. Hakatain,

racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior.

The proposition that "Many free Minmatar are downright nasty." needs to be stretched quite a bit to be able to blame a racist agenda on it and I suspect that you are doing so because of the messanger rather than the message. There is no need, though, to 'shoot the massenger', especially if there is nothing wrong with the message.

That the message holds by your own standards is obvious as it follows by logical deduction from "many people are downright nasty" and "Minmatar are people" that "many Minmatar are downright nasty", given that we assume that nastyness is distributed roughly equally among people of differing race - an assumption you need to accept for your argument that we can substitute 'any other ethnicity' for 'Minmatar' and the statement remains equally true. That you point out that the statement remains true implicates strongly that you accept Admiral Blakes statement as true as well.

While you are right that there is no need to specify "free Minmatar", this specification doesn't make the statement any more or less racist.

Now to your claim that Admiral Blake demonstrate that he is nasty: If he is nasty for pointing out something that is true, that is that "many free Minmatar are downright nasty", then it follows that someone stating that "many people are downright nasty"least equally nasty, as the latter statement includes the former statement. As you yourself argued, it includes also all statements about the nastyness of other reaces of humankind. One can make a strong case that someone who makes the general statement, as you did, must be even nastier than someone making the statement of one special case.

Regards,
- N. Mithra
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#92 - 2013-08-21 14:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Quote:
While you are right that there is no need to specify "free Minmatar", this specification doesn't make the statement any more or less racist.


Why not? What motive other than racism is there for needlessly singling out "free Minmatar" in that statement? Especially when the ethnically-neutral version is so self-evident as to scarcely be worth saying in the first place?

How can you read that as anything other than a needless, apropos stab at the Minmatar for no good reason?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#93 - 2013-08-21 14:53:27 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Quote:
While you are right that there is no need to specify "free Minmatar", this specification doesn't make the statement any more or less racist.


Why not? What motive other than racism is there for needlessly singling out "free Minmatar" in that statement?


Pointing out that, perhaps, he feels that Matari who are not free, have a far smaller incidence of "downright nasty" than those who are.

That's not exactly a racist sentiment in and of itself. Potentially incendiary to some parties, yes. Racist, no.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#94 - 2013-08-21 14:54:48 UTC
I'm sorry, I'm not very good with this sort of logic, but, well. I had thought that assigning a negative universal of human nature to a specific racial group was a functional definition of racism? Maybe I should just stay in my lab.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-08-21 14:55:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Morwen, if he believes that then he's an even bigger idiot than I'd thought. It would imply either that he thinks you can beat somebody into being a pleasant person (absurd) or that he thinks that "nice" is the same thing as "obedient" (arrogant).

Schere, you and I agree in our logic on this, and thank you for outlining it rather more clearly and elegantly than I was managing to.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-08-21 16:05:11 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Morwen, if he believes that then he's an even bigger idiot than I'd thought.

Oh yeah, Rodj is uncannily good at pushing the boundaries of people's opinions on Amarrians.

... downward.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#97 - 2013-08-21 16:10:27 UTC
Nah, I'm not about to brand the entirety of the Amarr race with being Rodj Blake. I know I like to rail on the Empire a bit, but it can, has, and does produce some wonderful people with whom I have a perfectly good personal relationship.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#98 - 2013-08-21 16:10:54 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Morwen, if he believes that then he's an even bigger idiot than I'd thought.

Oh yeah, Rodj is uncannily good at pushing the boundaries of people's opinions on Amarrians.

... downward.


You're all so serious.

I long ago stopped believing that Mr Blake said anything on the IGS except for the purposes of dark humour. I certainly laughed. He's probably getting a wry smile as well from watching you all tie yourselves up in logical and moralistic knots over a snarky comment.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#99 - 2013-08-21 16:29:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
See, where I'm from we have a word for people like that.

Several words, in fact. Words that refer to intimate anatomy, things one might insert into said anatomy (sometimes these things are intimate anatomy in their own right), and things one might do with said anatomy.

Words, in short, that are applied to somebody whose social demeanour doesn't inspire respect and friendship.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#100 - 2013-08-21 16:30:14 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not very good with this sort of logic, but, well. I had thought that assigning a negative universal of human nature to a specific racial group was a functional definition of racism? Maybe I should just stay in my lab.


Only if you assign it specifically to a specific racial group, that is saying that group a shows a greater frequency in displaying said negative trait than group b for example and you claim (implicitly) that this difference in frequency is causally linked to the race, that is if you say that group a is nastier than group b, because of the races of groups a and b.

To be racist the statement would need to be something like this: "Minmatar are worth less than other races, because many free Minmatar are downright nasty, in difference to free members of more valuable races." I put emphasis on what Mr. Hakatain added apparently in his head to the statement of the Admiral and which he, by the way, accepts as true.

Absence of a qualification that makes a statement explicitly non-racist of the type "the statement "many free Minmatar are downright nasty" remains equally true when you [...] substitute any other ethnicity..." doesn't mean that the statemant automatically qualifies as racist.

Tl;dr: Not 'assigning a negative universal of human nature to a specific racial group' is a functional definition of racism, but 'assigning a negative universal of human nature specifically to a specific racial group'.