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Sarum Family Heir recommends assault on Republic
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Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-08-17 14:32:08 UTC
You know that no matter how many times you tell a lie, it doesn't make it true, right? Children usually learn this at round about the age of four.

You're, what, in your thirties? Although by that dead look in your eye and that worn out smile, could be fifties.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#102 - 2013-08-17 15:24:32 UTC
It's true, Andreus Ixiris is not a Blood Raider, just offered his services as a mercenary to them. At one of Silas Vitalia's parties.

Though, the Covenant representative, locked him in a closet, ahahahaaa.

It's funny on at least 2 levels. ha!

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#103 - 2013-08-17 15:55:12 UTC
Rioghal Morgan wrote:
Oh I understand friendship quite well, thank you. I was pointing out how only a fool would believe a society entirely built on the idea of its own superiority and filled with a need to correct any perceived flaws in others could ever be a true ally.

The Empire has no real friends. It's only prioritizing targets.


Well, while you're probably speaking truth in regard to the Empire having no true friends in other nations, this is quite probably true for all nations, as Cpt. Gesakaarin. Nations have interests and friendship is more than having shared interests.

If the 'Republics' think like you though, it's no wonder that the Republic turned on their long standing allies. After all one could make the same oversimplification you committed to in evaluating the Empire and call it "a society entirely built on the idea of its own superiority and filled with a need to correct any perceived flaws in others".
Rioghal Morgan
Pixel Navigators
AimogMart
#104 - 2013-08-17 18:10:47 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:


Well, while you're probably speaking truth in regard to the Empire having no true friends in other nations, this is quite probably true for all nations, as Cpt. Gesakaarin. Nations have interests and friendship is more than having shared interests.

If the 'Republics' think like you though, it's no wonder that the Republic turned on their long standing allies. After all one could make the same oversimplification you committed to in evaluating the Empire and call it "a society entirely built on the idea of its own superiority and filled with a need to correct any perceived flaws in others".


Here's the thing, it's not true for every nation. Only yours. While it's true that the Minmatar government has exhibited a little of the Amarrian-style sociopathy, the problem is primarily found in the government, not endemic to the very culture like in the Empire.

I believe you've also mistaken me for a Matari. I merely fight for them.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-08-17 18:46:19 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
After all one could make the same oversimplification you committed to in evaluating the Empire and call it "a society entirely built on the idea of its own superiority and filled with a need to correct any perceived flaws in others".

The problem is it's not really an oversimplification. In fact, this description is too generous - for "built on the idea," it should read "built on the false idea."

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#106 - 2013-08-18 09:28:04 UTC
Rioghal Morgan wrote:
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:


Well, while you're probably speaking truth in regard to the Empire having no true friends in other nations, this is quite probably true for all nations, as Cpt. Gesakaarin. Nations have interests and friendship is more than having shared interests.

If the 'Republics' think like you though, it's no wonder that the Republic turned on their long standing allies. After all one could make the same oversimplification you committed to in evaluating the Empire and call it "a society entirely built on the idea of its own superiority and filled with a need to correct any perceived flaws in others".


Here's the thing, it's not true for every nation. Only yours. While it's true that the Minmatar government has exhibited a little of the Amarrian-style sociopathy, the problem is primarily found in the government, not endemic to the very culture like in the Empire.


I must have imagined the cheering crowds when the self-styled Elders launched their unprovoked attacks on other people then.

And the same goes for those Minmatar lynch mobs that murder followers of a different creed to their own.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#107 - 2013-08-18 10:53:23 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
After all one could make the same oversimplification you committed to in evaluating the Empire and call it "a society entirely built on the idea of its own superiority and filled with a need to correct any perceived flaws in others".


They all behave the exact same way regarding that matter, and all believe they are superior. I would be surprised if they did not, Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, or Minmatar.
Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#108 - 2013-08-19 12:56:21 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Rioghal Morgan wrote:
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:


Well, while you're probably speaking truth in regard to the Empire having no true friends in other nations, this is quite probably true for all nations, as Cpt. Gesakaarin. Nations have interests and friendship is more than having shared interests.

If the 'Republics' think like you though, it's no wonder that the Republic turned on their long standing allies. After all one could make the same oversimplification you committed to in evaluating the Empire and call it "a society entirely built on the idea of its own superiority and filled with a need to correct any perceived flaws in others".


Here's the thing, it's not true for every nation. Only yours. While it's true that the Minmatar government has exhibited a little of the Amarrian-style sociopathy, the problem is primarily found in the government, not endemic to the very culture like in the Empire.


I must have imagined the cheering crowds when the self-styled Elders launched their unprovoked attacks on other people then.

And the same goes for those Minmatar lynch mobs that murder followers of a different creed to their own.


These events stand out because they are remarkable.

The violence of Amarrian chattel slavery and feudalism grinds on, day after day, largely unremarked upon, with billions groaning under its piously-gilded weight.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#109 - 2013-08-19 19:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Andrea Okazon wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Rioghal Morgan wrote:
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:


Well, while you're probably speaking truth in regard to the Empire having no true friends in other nations, this is quite probably true for all nations, as Cpt. Gesakaarin. Nations have interests and friendship is more than having shared interests.

If the 'Republics' think like you though, it's no wonder that the Republic turned on their long standing allies. After all one could make the same oversimplification you committed to in evaluating the Empire and call it "a society entirely built on the idea of its own superiority and filled with a need to correct any perceived flaws in others".


Here's the thing, it's not true for every nation. Only yours. While it's true that the Minmatar government has exhibited a little of the Amarrian-style sociopathy, the problem is primarily found in the government, not endemic to the very culture like in the Empire.


I must have imagined the cheering crowds when the self-styled Elders launched their unprovoked attacks on other people then.

And the same goes for those Minmatar lynch mobs that murder followers of a different creed to their own.


These events stand out because they are remarkable.

The violence of Amarrian chattel slavery and feudalism grinds on, day after day, largely unremarked upon, with billions groaning under its piously-gilded weight.


But they're not remarkable, are they?

I could have just as well pointed to what happens to Minmatar in every settlement of the Republic simply because they have the wrong tattoo.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#110 - 2013-08-20 20:20:09 UTC
Tash-Murkon may back Sarum's calls.

Sources within the Tash-Murkon Family say Catiz Tash-Murkon has given some thought to backing Merimeth Sarum's calls for the proper launch of the Reclaiming. The Heir has reportedly been conferring with the Empress for several days, discussing the economic and political impact the Reclaiming would have on the Empire, for both good and ill. Additionally, Catiz has met with several Imperial Navy admirals to hear their opinions on the Empyrean War and potential renewed escalation

source
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/report-tash-murkon-may-back-sarums-calls/
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#111 - 2013-08-20 21:01:29 UTC
As a Tash-Murkonite, I do heavily recommend against this course of action. The Empire is, to date, the only member of the Big 4 not to have inflicted an unprecedented invasion on a target that we had signed a treaty with; I do not suggest allow this point to slip away from us.

Furthermore, there are other significant threats in the cluster we have yet to address; to our galactic "left" lay the Blooders and their hideaways; to the right, the Cartel's homelands of Curse; beneath us, the heart of a still-threatening Nation. All of these represent significant threats to the Empire, and did so long before we began this "war". If the Empire is looking to crush a rising threat, all of these represent dangers in need of pruning - why not handle a force which has never accepted peace with the Empire?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-08-20 22:48:40 UTC
Republic, republic, republic...
Who needs this Republic?
It is much better to reclaim the Federation.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#113 - 2013-08-20 22:58:09 UTC
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
...The Empire is, to date, the only member of the Big 4 not to have inflicted an unprecedented invasion on a target that we had signed a treaty with; I do not suggest allow this point to slip away from us...


I think the residents of Solitude would disagree. I seem to remember Heir Uriam Kador launching an unprovoked attack on the Federation several years ago that was badly botched and resulted in the Heir losing what was left of his military forces by order of the Empress.

Although Kador was acting without official sanction from the throne you can't simply dismiss the invasion as if it never happened. This wasn't a case of a single ship commander going rogue; it was a Royal Heir unleashing the full might of his considerable military forces against the Gallente. In my mind that qualifies as an imperial invasion force launched against a CONCORD signatory.



When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#114 - 2013-08-20 23:01:13 UTC
So in your mind Kador equals the Empire? Weird. That'd kind of like saying that ice equals a good vodka with ice.
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#115 - 2013-08-20 23:59:20 UTC
Well, It seems your favored Heir is thinking of taking a very different stance than you, Esna. Personally I'll be waiting on what the houses of Kador and Kor-Azor have to say. To be frank I rather dislike the idea of having to fight still more in this futile struggle in the Bleak Lands and Devoid; after five years of war I am beginning to lose my patience with the status quo.

Of course, I wish that we might have peace rather than an escalation, but a peace treaty takes two side to negotiate. With neither the Matari nor our own Empire jumping at the prospect of ending this conflict, things can only go in one direction.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#116 - 2013-08-21 15:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Anabella Rella
Yes, I do Pilot Mithra since Uriam Kador is a Royal Heir who at the time of his incursion controlled vast swaths of space, billions of serfs and a significant military force. Heirs speak and act with the authority of the throne within their domains, correct? Their authority derives directly from the divinely chosen emperor or empress, right? How can you attempt to equate the acts of someone so powerful as not representing the Empire?

Again, this is a Royal Heir we're talking about, not some "commoner" low-level bureaucrat or rogue starship commander.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#117 - 2013-08-21 16:00:19 UTC
You are quite right: Heirs speak and act with the authority of the throne within their domains. Do you want to imply that Heir Kador acted within his domain when he invaded the Federation? If not, you have to accpet that he didn't invade with the authority of the throne and was thus no representative of the Empire.

And it doesn't matter how powerful the individual is if it is to decide whether it is representing another entity. To represent another entity and individual must be vested by that entity to represent it within the respective capacity. The Empress made clear that she didn't do so with Heir Kador and thus he wasn't.

If she invests a simple 'commoner', a low level diplomat with the power to speak for her and the Empire to declare war to another nation, then he is representing the Empire, regardless of his lack of power.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2013-08-21 16:42:15 UTC
So what you're saying is that the Empire isn't responsible for a completely unprovoked attack on the Federation, it's simply too feeble and incompetent to stop members of its second-highest tier of political authority randomly wigging out and launching completely unprovoked attacks on the Federation.

Congratulations on managing to make the Empire sound even worse than it already did.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#119 - 2013-08-21 17:06:11 UTC
Kador is not the Empire as a whole. He is the equivalent of a member state, and he acted alone when he invaded Solitude. He was punished as a result, when the Empire - or, specifically, the Empress - policed itself in this instance.

Beyond the electing not to escalate after the Federation showed up and tore Kador a new *******, she also held him quite accountable for his actions, and ensured that he would not be able to do what he did again by confiscating the remains of his naval forces after the incident.

Shakor has yet to be punished for any of his actions, on the other hand.

That is the difference.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#120 - 2013-08-21 17:07:31 UTC
So, if Kador had succeeded in his invasion he'd have claimed the spoils of his victory in the name of House Kador and not for the Empire?

Let's take another example; CVA. They're not officially sanctioned by the throne either but, the systems they control they've claimed in the name of the Empire. As far as I know the throne hasn't turned down any of that real estate and at least tacitly approves of CVA's actions. CVA is a simple capsuleer-run corporation; a band of commoners who pledge fealty to the Empire. If they can be seen as acting in service to and in furtherance of imperial interests how could you not say the same of a Royal Heir from one of the most traditionalist and respected families in the Empire, a man whose ancestors sat on the throne, a man who has direct access to the Empress?

Uriam Kador is also known as a philosopher and scholar, a deep thinker not prone to rash acts. He knew quite well what he wanted to accomplish and the potential negative consequences of his actions. I can't believe that such a man would act as he did for the base motive of personal gain. He wanted to seize that territory for the Empire.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.