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Cloaking device with fuel

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Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#481 - 2013-08-19 21:40:20 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way. I've read your previous posts where it's clear you see them as the same as a bot, but other than your own reaction to the AFK pilot, which I point out is YOUR issue and can no way be attributed to the AFK pilot, that pilot is not interacting with the game nor is the in-game character doing anything either.

Obviously you and I are on two completely different wavelengths here and it really appears to me, in the face of all the bull-headed stubbornness in this thread, you and I will never agree and you won't ever be persuaded that your viewpoint is wrong.

The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.



Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#482 - 2013-08-19 21:42:57 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way.



But... but... he's hurting MY feelings! How can't you understand this?



My ex-wife once accused me of being insensitive.... ?

I love those big meany characters. I troll the **** out of their roleplay ingame.





Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#483 - 2013-08-19 21:44:13 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way. I've read your previous posts where it's clear you see them as the same as a bot, but other than your own reaction to the AFK pilot, which I point out is YOUR issue and can no way be attributed to the AFK pilot, that pilot is not interacting with the game nor is the in-game character doing anything either.

Obviously you and I are on two completely different wavelengths here and it really appears to me, in the face of all the bull-headed stubbornness in this thread, you and I will never agree and you won't ever be persuaded that your viewpoint is wrong.

The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.

Botting is something CCP handles.

Automated generation of ISK like that is often considered poor gameplay.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#484 - 2013-08-19 21:49:28 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way.



But... but... he's hurting MY feelings! How can't you understand this?



My ex-wife once accused me of being insensitive.... ?

I love those big meany characters. I troll the **** out of their roleplay ingame.

Roleplaying is awesome, I hope at least that you troll in-character, and make it entertaining.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#485 - 2013-08-19 21:51:09 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way. I've read your previous posts where it's clear you see them as the same as a bot, but other than your own reaction to the AFK pilot, which I point out is YOUR issue and can no way be attributed to the AFK pilot, that pilot is not interacting with the game nor is the in-game character doing anything either.

Obviously you and I are on two completely different wavelengths here and it really appears to me, in the face of all the bull-headed stubbornness in this thread, you and I will never agree and you won't ever be persuaded that your viewpoint is wrong.

The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.





A market bot is actually setting orders. The only thing an AFK cloaked player is doing is being in local. Would removing cloaked players from local satisfy you?
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#486 - 2013-08-19 22:13:11 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way. I've read your previous posts where it's clear you see them as the same as a bot, but other than your own reaction to the AFK pilot, which I point out is YOUR issue and can no way be attributed to the AFK pilot, that pilot is not interacting with the game nor is the in-game character doing anything either.

Obviously you and I are on two completely different wavelengths here and it really appears to me, in the face of all the bull-headed stubbornness in this thread, you and I will never agree and you won't ever be persuaded that your viewpoint is wrong.

The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.





A market bot is actually setting orders. The only thing an AFK cloaked player is doing is being in local. Would removing cloaked players from local satisfy you?

I don't want anybody to be removed. And the cloaker is not just in local. His ship is in space, at an unknown location.
I think it is just fair that the time a ship can stay cloaked is limited, but big enough as not to break the game or become a nuisance. This way players who want to go afk would manage it for themselves.
Even a miner who goes afk has his yield reduced. Why a specialized pilot of a much more complex type of gameplay doesn't have any drawbacks on it?

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#487 - 2013-08-19 22:14:39 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way.



But... but... he's hurting MY feelings! How can't you understand this?



My ex-wife once accused me of being insensitive.... ?

I love those big meany characters. I troll the **** out of their roleplay ingame.

Roleplaying is awesome, I hope at least that you troll in-character, and make it entertaining.

Sure. The troll itself is a character. That's why I don't take half of the **** in this thread seriously.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#488 - 2013-08-19 23:41:54 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
A market bot is actually setting orders. The only thing an AFK cloaked player is doing is being in local. Would removing cloaked players from local satisfy you?
That wouldn't be nearly enough. The AFK cloaker needs to be PUNISHED for disrupting gameplay. They should have their ship blown up by a GM, and like half their skillpoints taken away (definitely their Cloaking skill), and be given a 3-Strike Warning. It is the only thing that will stop these people from not being active in the game. Cuz making other players feel scared and insecure is griefing!!!111.... Roll
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#489 - 2013-08-20 00:36:28 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
A market bot is actually setting orders. The only thing an AFK cloaked player is doing is being in local. Would removing cloaked players from local satisfy you?
That wouldn't be nearly enough. The AFK cloaker needs to be PUNISHED for disrupting gameplay. They should have their ship blown up by a GM, and like half their skillpoints taken away (definitely their Cloaking skill), and be given a 3-Strike Warning. It is the only thing that will stop these people from not being active in the game. Cuz making other players feel scared and insecure is griefing!!!111.... Roll

I don't like simple solutions. I think they are just plain boring and that is the last thing I want from a game, but since you all seem to be so difficulty averse maybe a simple 2 hour cycle time would solve the problem of afk cloaking (as long as you consider it a problem).
Not as complex as cap drain or demanding as cloak fuel, dumbed down enough to not hurt anyone. I'm not happy with it, but I'm tired of posting on this thread.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Icarus fall
What Shall We Call It
#490 - 2013-08-20 00:37:56 UTC
cloaks should have a 23 and 1/2 hour timer.

Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#491 - 2013-08-20 00:44:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
Icarus fall wrote:
cloaks should have a 23 and 1/2 hour timer.


Also mining barges should come with an in game application that lets you program autopiloting to stations and belts, cargo discharging and selection of roid by mineral type. Is that cool or what?

EDIT: That way you would not need to afk cloak, because unpiloted barges would be plenty! +1 for afk gaming!

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#492 - 2013-08-20 01:31:48 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way. I've read your previous posts where it's clear you see them as the same as a bot, but other than your own reaction to the AFK pilot, which I point out is YOUR issue and can no way be attributed to the AFK pilot, that pilot is not interacting with the game nor is the in-game character doing anything either.

Obviously you and I are on two completely different wavelengths here and it really appears to me, in the face of all the bull-headed stubbornness in this thread, you and I will never agree and you won't ever be persuaded that your viewpoint is wrong.

The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.





A market bot is actually setting orders. The only thing an AFK cloaked player is doing is being in local. Would removing cloaked players from local satisfy you?

I don't want anybody to be removed. And the cloaker is not just in local. His ship is in space, at an unknown location.
I think it is just fair that the time a ship can stay cloaked is limited, but big enough as not to break the game or become a nuisance. This way players who want to go afk would manage it for themselves.
Even a miner who goes afk has his yield reduced. Why a specialized pilot of a much more complex type of gameplay doesn't have any drawbacks on it?



If you AFK cloak for a system for too long and don't do anything, the inhabitants will ignore you. Instead of farming idiots who don't check local, you spend lot of time doing nothing for the chance at a single kill. It's the same if you keep a certain schedule: people will adapt.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#493 - 2013-08-20 01:54:34 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Why is it impossible to compete with a market bot on the top order game?
Because it keeps acting as a player, updating his orders indefinitely, no matter how many times and for how long real players react to his order changes.

The same goes for the afk cloaker.


False.

If you choose to not react to the market bot, it'll undercut all your orders and you won't sell anything. Exactly as you pointed out the bot does, as it *acts* upon the game database.

If you choose not to react to the AFK cloaker, exactly *nothing* happens.

However, this brings up an excellent point. I'd like a new feature so that I can appear in the local of any system in the game at any time.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#494 - 2013-08-20 01:56:22 UTC
They should also ban you for AFKing in a catalyst in a mining belt too. 30 days for the first offense of spending 5 minutes being afk, and permaban on the 2nd offense.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#495 - 2013-08-20 02:00:59 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.


The bot is changing the state of the database.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#496 - 2013-08-20 02:16:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
Gospadin wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.


The bot is changing the state of the database.

But only if someone buys from or sell something for it, right? Otherwise he is not affecting the game in any way.
In all history of EvE online there has never been a single case of a market order changing the assets database without that order being filled. Now how do you know if the order is going to be filled? You don't. So the bot is not affecting your game.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#497 - 2013-08-20 02:21:13 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.


The bot is changing the state of the database.

But only if someone buys from or sell something for it, right? Otherwise he is not affecting the game in any way.
In all history of EvE online there has never been a single case of a market order changing the assets database without that order being filled. Now how do you know if the order is going to be filled? You don't. So the bot is not affecting your game.


The active order list is part of the database too.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#498 - 2013-08-20 02:40:43 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:


But then why state above that "Say you want a ship to be hidden in a system for a long period while some sort of op is prepared. You just jump in with it and log off"? That says you want more "Log-off traps" creating and less people actually active.

I'd like to say no...but you'd be fricking surprised at some people. You should see how long it takes an Incursion fleet to form lol.

The trouble is that whatever you apply to "AFK Pilots" will be applied to "Active Pilots". The reason is that you can't ascertain if they are AFK or not...and you can't do it by movement of a mouse or keyboard cos I've been perched on a gate many a time, sitting, watching, waiting, logging (EDIT: Logging ships\chars\regulars etc) and shouldn't be forced to move my mouse if I don't want to.


Bingo. I've waited and waited and waited on titans ready to bridge. Somewhere there are cloaked pilots watching stuff, reporting on enemy form up, location, fleet comp. As that intel comes in, plans are changed. Time ticks by, tick-tock-tick-tock. All the while cloaked and active players are doing stuff. So, how does CCP tell if that guy sitting near the enemy POS reporting on the hostiles forming on their own titan is AFK or not? Why should he be penalized for doing exactly what you claim you want? Being active?

If someone has to reactivate a cloak every 1 or 2 hours he is active somehow. How much is of a hidrance to hit a button two times? "Oh, it will give up his position." Just warp outside d-scan for doing that. I do that everytime with cov-ops to drop probes when I don't want to be detected and it's not a hidrance, it's just part of the hiding game. The way I see you just want an excuse to leave your ship cloaked while you go afk the whole day not giving a **** about what is happening in the game.



Right, warp out of d-scan range...if its possible...but what if they needed that cyno then? What if it was for a warp in? And why are we gimping active players when it is the inactive ones you are after? Your solution is too broad. Another reason things like this don't get implemented.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#499 - 2013-08-20 05:51:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Quote:
The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he?

yes, a bot is affecting the game. no, someone who is cloaked and asleep is not affecting the game.

Quote:
But only if someone buys from or sell something for it, right? Otherwise he is not affecting the game in any way.

nope, a market bot is affecting the market by increasing the prices of items on the market at a faster rate than a normal person might be able to. A botter is also breaking the EULA. afk person - not breaking the EULA. A cloaker who is asleep cannot do anything to the market, to his own wallet, or anyone elses... he absolutely cannot kill you, threaten you, or even move his ship.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#500 - 2013-08-20 05:56:50 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way. I've read your previous posts where it's clear you see them as the same as a bot, but other than your own reaction to the AFK pilot, which I point out is YOUR issue and can no way be attributed to the AFK pilot, that pilot is not interacting with the game nor is the in-game character doing anything either.

Obviously you and I are on two completely different wavelengths here and it really appears to me, in the face of all the bull-headed stubbornness in this thread, you and I will never agree and you won't ever be persuaded that your viewpoint is wrong.

The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.





A market bot is actually setting orders. The only thing an AFK cloaked player is doing is being in local. Would removing cloaked players from local satisfy you?

I don't want anybody to be removed. And the cloaker is not just in local. His ship is in space, at an unknown location.
I think it is just fair that the time a ship can stay cloaked is limited, but big enough as not to break the game or become a nuisance. This way players who want to go afk would manage it for themselves.
Even a miner who goes afk has his yield reduced. Why a specialized pilot of a much more complex type of gameplay doesn't have any drawbacks on it?




if you don't know he's there (which is the way it should be) it no longer matters.. he is not able to affect your play..and he's not breaking the EULA.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]