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Should dual MASB hawk be nerfed?
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Heather Tsukaya
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-08-19 23:42:23 UTC
It's immortal in small plex 1v1s. People still seem to prefer buffer tanked stuff in larger fights though, where your time to live after being primaried isn't that long and logi makes local active tank somewhat unnecessary.

What do you think? Is it ok to have a frig that is unkillable in a 1v1 frig duel scenarios? Or should the dual MASB hawk be nerfed somehow?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2 - 2013-08-20 00:07:08 UTC

So is a vengeance... and an incursus isn't far behind! And a breacher can be fit to permatank most frigates too.

pick your fights accordingly....

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-08-20 00:09:16 UTC
If I read between the lines I get, "Should the ASB be nerfed?" Yes, it should be restricted to one per ship like the AAR.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Cade Windstalker
#4 - 2013-08-20 00:10:27 UTC
So, I'm fitting this thing out with all 5s in EFT and I'm failing to see the problem.

Sure it's got a hilarious tank but it pays for it in not being able to fit much else and if you can out-last it then it'll eventually run out of either ammo or cap boosters at which point it's as good as dead.

If you have an example fit that would probably help matters along.

Also I'm reasonably sure that a Blaster fit Enyo or Ishtar could break the tank since it would be doing more damage than a single ASB can keep up with meaning your opponent can't just rotate his ASBs, he has to run them both at some point which means the reloads will overlap.
Heather Tsukaya
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-08-20 00:15:56 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
If I read between the lines I get, "Should the ASB be nerfed?" Yes, it should be restricted to one per ship like the AAR.

Sounds reasonable to me.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-08-20 00:45:36 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
So, I'm fitting this thing out with all 5s in EFT and I'm failing to see the problem.

Sure it's got a hilarious tank but it pays for it in not being able to fit much else and if you can out-last it then it'll eventually run out of either ammo or cap boosters at which point it's as good as dead.

If you have an example fit that would probably help matters along.

Also I'm reasonably sure that a Blaster fit Enyo or Ishtar could break the tank since it would be doing more damage than a single ASB can keep up with meaning your opponent can't just rotate his ASBs, he has to run them both at some point which means the reloads will overlap.


People use them as bait ships, not combat ships.

Yes, the ASB should be limited to one per ship. It was introduced as "emergency tank for shield skirmishers", it was never designed to be "uber mega-perma-tank" for making unkillable frigates and shield battleships.

That's the job of the gist x-type shield boosters coupled with crystal implants (which are overpowered).

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#7 - 2013-08-20 00:51:10 UTC
I beat a duel ASB Hawk in a duel rep Incursus, so no, it's good.
Grunnax Aurelius
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-08-20 01:14:31 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
So, I'm fitting this thing out with all 5s in EFT and I'm failing to see the problem.

Sure it's got a hilarious tank but it pays for it in not being able to fit much else and if you can out-last it then it'll eventually run out of either ammo or cap boosters at which point it's as good as dead.

If you have an example fit that would probably help matters along.

Also I'm reasonably sure that a Blaster fit Enyo or Ishtar could break the tank since it would be doing more damage than a single ASB can keep up with meaning your opponent can't just rotate his ASBs, he has to run them both at some point which means the reloads will overlap.


Ha your funny, run out of caps? i carry two sets of 9 navy 50's loaded in the asbs and a spare 180 navy 50 caps in cargo along with 3k rockets. And as for you statement about being not able to tank an enyo, ok so an enyo puts out about 300dps, i have tanked a full skill tristan, dramiel and executioner at the same time while my buddy in his hookbill killed them :) the fight went for a good 3 - 5 minutes.

Hawk is not broken, just bring the correct tools to deal with it. aka Jam it and bring 350+ dps, and if he has full grade crystals and drugs bring 550+ dps

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Heather Tsukaya
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-08-20 01:25:52 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
So, I'm fitting this thing out with all 5s in EFT and I'm failing to see the problem.

Sure it's got a hilarious tank but it pays for it in not being able to fit much else and if you can out-last it then it'll eventually run out of either ammo or cap boosters at which point it's as good as dead.

If you have an example fit that would probably help matters along.

Also I'm reasonably sure that a Blaster fit Enyo or Ishtar could break the tank since it would be doing more damage than a single ASB can keep up with meaning your opponent can't just rotate his ASBs, he has to run them both at some point which means the reloads will overlap.


Ha your funny, run out of caps? i carry two sets of 9 navy 50's loaded in the asbs and a spare 180 navy 50 caps in cargo along with 3k rockets. And as for you statement about being not able to tank an enyo, ok so an enyo puts out about 300dps, i have tanked a full skill tristan, dramiel and executioner at the same time while my buddy in his hookbill killed them :) the fight went for a good 3 - 5 minutes.

Hawk is not broken, just bring the correct tools to deal with it. aka Jam it and bring 350+ dps, and if he has full grade crystals and drugs bring 550+ dps

Is it good design to have a class of ships be able to tank more ships than they can dish out?

We have frig sized ships that can tank 350-550 dps, but the max a frig sized can dish out is in the 300 range, and that's before resistances.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-08-20 01:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
NO.

A heating dual asb hawk tanks with a blue pill without any implants or links 638dps. Sound op as hell but thats a "fake number".

You first have to half it as you otherwise cant take any damage later on, meaning you actually only tank 328 (its not exacrky half as you tank a bit via shield recharge) per booster, which would result in a 328 active tank IF the asb would run for 60 seconds, but it only runs for 22.95 seconds with heat, which means you have to devide the tanking amount by 2.61. Which means a standard dual masb hawk actually has a sustained tank of:

125.46dps.

And that is with heat!


To compare, a heating dualrep incursus has a sustained tank of 235 (with 1.1 changes, 175ish atm). A heating dualrep vengeance with 30mil reppers has a sustained tank with heat of 450dps (over 600 post patch).

it really isnt op.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#11 - 2013-08-20 04:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
NO.

A heating dual asb hawk tanks with a blue pill without any implants or links 638dps. Sound op as hell but thats a "fake number".

You first have to half it as you otherwise cant take any damage later on, meaning you actually only tank 328 (its not exacrky half as you tank a bit via shield recharge) per booster, which would result in a 328 active tank IF the asb would run for 60 seconds, but it only runs for 22.95 seconds with heat, which means you have to devide the tanking amount by 2.61. Which means a standard dual masb hawk actually has a sustained tank of:

125.46dps.

And that is with heat!


To compare, a heating dualrep incursus has a sustained tank of 235 (with 1.1 changes, 175ish atm). A heating dualrep vengeance with 30mil reppers has a sustained tank with heat of 450dps (over 600 post patch).

it really isnt op.

well you could say it tanks any other frig till the other frig is dead ;)

the max tank setups look nice on paper but thats really all they can do, they give up any option for range control by using a cap booster. Hawk can tank, web and dps.

I mean how would you kill a hawk with your 450dps tank vengeance? He would shoot you, laugh and slowly walk away or point you and ask for help.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value