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Sleipnir multitool, After 1.1 ?

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Silver Getsuga
Liber Primus
#21 - 2013-08-16 11:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Silver Getsuga
Goldiiee wrote:

IDK it seems like the times I really needed that 130 DPS, (Hope you and my math is wrong and Zhillia's is right cause 130dps loss is certainty more than the 3.6% Zillia predicted) it was a make it or break it moment so I would hate to be in some of the close calls I had without it.


AH yes, this EFT math may be wrong since 1.1 changes are in data files that some dude made available on fail-heap. He might got something wrong or old. Time will tell.

Edit:
Oh and, every shield booster and armor repairer gets a buff except for ASBs. So yeah, you setup was nerfed pretty hard if you were ganking self-rep targets. Doesn't mean it won't work or be imbalanced after a patch, but still.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-08-16 11:48:30 UTC
Someone has said it before on these forums but I can't for the life of me find it.

If any Minmatar command ships are getting a hull it swap it needs to be the claymore, why?

It looks like a claymore

For people who point out the obvious, the hurricane uses ac's and the cyclone uses missiles so the the sleipnir should be changed i would argue that why not add some variety, that way whatever you want to fire, guns or missiles you can choose your prefered hull, skill points allowing of course.

Claymore

Hurricane
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#23 - 2013-08-16 12:06:27 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Someone has said it before on these forums but I can't for the life of me find it.

If any Minmatar command ships are getting a hull it swap it needs to be the claymore, why?

It looks like a claymore

For people who point out the obvious, the hurricane uses ac's and the cyclone uses missiles so the the sleipnir should be changed i would argue that why not add some variety, that way whatever you want to fire, guns or missiles you can choose your prefered hull, skill points allowing of course.

Claymore

Hurricane

That's the best argument I have heard so far for changing the to the Cain hull. Been 5 months since they introduced the Minmi Missile boats but I still haven't got used to Minmi running around pretending to be Caldari.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-08-16 12:46:05 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
[...]I still haven't got used to Minmi running around pretending to be Caldari.

it might also have to do with the cyclone having the same DPS as a caracal... sure it has neuts and a better tank but it's still kind of sad.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-08-16 20:33:31 UTC
I think the hull changes may be still up in the air; from what I read, the end result of the discussion was that people were drooling over a Myrmidon-based Eos, ambivalent about a Drake-based Nighthawk, and really not liking a Hurricane-based Sleipnir or a Harbinger-based Absolution. (Something about the need for a laser chicken or something.)

(Oh, and if I read the notes right, it'll just be T1, T2, and faction shield boosters that get buffed; deadspace, officer, and ancillary boosters are staying as-is...)

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#26 - 2013-08-16 20:40:50 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
(Oh, and if I read the notes right, it'll just be T1, T2, and faction shield boosters that get buffed; deadspace, officer, and ancillary boosters are staying as-is...)


Large and XL deadspace/officer boosters are getting a relatively modest 10% boost. CN/DG are getting an even more modest 5%. ASBs, small and medium deadspace boosters, and capital boosters (and armor reps) are remaining unchanged.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-08-17 13:24:41 UTC
The sleipnir is getting a extreme buff in fleets, it now puts out the most alpha any medium sized ship can produce, combined with a epic resistance profile, a range bonus and very good hp you got a real killer.
Silver Getsuga
Liber Primus
#28 - 2013-08-17 13:53:48 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The sleipnir is getting a extreme buff in fleets, it now puts out the most alpha any medium sized ship can produce, combined with a epic resistance profile, a range bonus and very good hp you got a real killer.
Unless Sleipnirs are going to be big portion of the fleet alpha (and damage for that matter) is irrelevant. Small gangs will benefit though.
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-08-17 22:36:12 UTC
well shield tanking active ofc getting a buff as well. I dont know why but i find sleipnir actually getting better now

I havent loaded sisi yet

Ride hard, live with passion 
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#30 - 2013-08-18 05:32:40 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Edit: still pretty pissed about the presumably impending hull switch though; I'll give you that.


they would never!!!!.... would they?


Call me Dinsdale but between this thread and the note at the top of Fozzie's CS change threads that reads like this:

Quote:
The other threads are :
Warfare Links, Mindlinks, Gang Bonuses
Local armor and shield rep changes
Command Ship model changes


with the last yet to get a link -- I'm going with yes, they're going to do it.


Not yet - Fozzie said so in the CS thread a couple of days back. Frankly, I'm torn about the CS changes. On the one hand, there's Sleipnir, which I've come to adore, on the other there's the other three, which will look great in their new hulls. 3/4 = change all, I guess. But then the sacrifice is Sleipnir... doh. Ideally, they'd all get unique models instead.


Laser.
Chicken.

Oh, and I guess that loosing the Sleip's body to the cane would suck too. To be fair, the only one that I don't like the body on is the Eos, but I've never cared about its stats, either.
Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-08-18 20:38:45 UTC
making the best cs better, destroying the rest.

I hate emos.
Tsai Ashitaka
Caidin Global Academy
#32 - 2013-08-19 21:04:31 UTC
Putting aside the utter derailment of this thread, I'd like to reiterate Zhilla's point that the Sleipnir is losing less than 4% of its DPS.

Bonuses are calculated multiplicatively in the case of multiple stacking bonuses.

The two 50% bonuses DO NOT end up being a single 100% bonus (10 turrets).

They are applied separately:

5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 11.25 turrets, compared to the existing 11.6735 turrets.

You're losing less than half of a turret.

CPU isn't changing, and you're losing 160 PG (while gaining much more than that from dropping two guns).

Sleipnir is coming out ahead in fittings and a TINY bit behind in effective damage.

Let's not forget it's gaining A LOT of alpha and DRASTICALLY reducing its ammo consumption (2 less turrets and the loss of RoF bonus).

Chill OP, Sleipnir is still one of the winners in the CS pass.

Nighthawk/Vulture, on the other hand...
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#33 - 2013-08-19 21:36:17 UTC
Tsai Ashitaka wrote:
Putting aside the utter derailment of this thread, I'd like to reiterate Zhilla's point that the Sleipnir is losing less than 4% of its DPS.

Bonuses are calculated multiplicatively in the case of multiple stacking bonuses.

The two 50% bonuses DO NOT end up being a single 100% bonus (10 turrets).

They are applied separately:

5 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 11.25 turrets, compared to the existing 11.6735 turrets.

You're losing less than half of a turret.

CPU isn't changing, and you're losing 160 PG (while gaining much more than that from dropping two guns).

Sleipnir is coming out ahead in fittings and a TINY bit behind in effective damage.

Let's not forget it's gaining A LOT of alpha and DRASTICALLY reducing its ammo consumption (2 less turrets and the loss of RoF bonus).

Chill OP, Sleipnir is still one of the winners in the CS pass.

Nighthawk/Vulture, on the other hand...

Yeah we figured that out 20 posts ago thanks for the clarification though. personally glad they gave back the 50cpu they were planning on taking away.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Zane Lowe
Our Sanctum
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2013-08-20 00:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Zane Lowe
Man Goldiiee, your posting is just kinda sad now, and the personal attack in the thread title isn't cool either.

Edit: +1 for cleaning up the title. Glad to see some people can take a bit of criticism well Lol
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#35 - 2013-08-20 01:30:19 UTC
Zane Lowe wrote:
Man Goldiiee, your posting is just kinda sad now, and the personal attack in the thread title isn't cool either.

Your right, fixed that. Let the constant barrage of irrelevant posting jade me for awhile there.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
CCP Gargant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2013-08-20 13:49:47 UTC
Thread cleaned up rather heftily. Keep it civil and keep it clean, people.

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator
Lynkon Lawg
Second Six Corporation
#37 - 2013-08-22 21:57:02 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
7 turrets * 4/3 RoF bonus * 5/4 damage bonus = 35/3 effective turrets (11.67)

5 turrets * 3/2 damage bonus * 3/2 damage bonus = 45/4 effective turrets (11.25)

Net difference: 5/12 effective turrets (.42), a 3.6% loss in DPS.

Note that with arties getting a straight 10% RoF bonus the Sleip in that configuration actually gains ~8% DPS.

Edit: still pretty pissed about the presumably impending hull switch though; I'll give you that.


Forgive my ignorance, but can someone explain how to read these equations? What does the 4/3, 5/4, 35/3 etc. mean?
Vrenth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-08-22 23:20:22 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Who here loves their Sleipnir, I mean really loves it?

It took a long time to find out how great this ship was, and now that I use it I can’t imagine playing the game without it. With the ability to tank PVP and PVE, to look at a gate camp and actually have the ability to make a decision to hit them rather than run, for linking the fit to friends when they ask what should they fly and why, yes it is or was the end all/be all of cruiser sized hulls.

But soon it will be nerfed into the scrap pile; losing 15m3 of drone space, no big deal; adding 25km of targeting range, didn’t need it Autocannons don’t care if you can lock that far out; But losing 2 turrets, 160pg and 50 cpu is a deathknell for me.

My old Sleip did 950 DPS, could tank 2000dps for 60 seconds. The new one will barely scrape 700 and change DPS and the tighter PG and CPU will make the ASB tank even tighter to fit on a ship that had only .5 cpu left in the first place.

So there goes another great ship to the scrap yard for the sake of balance.


You should actually fly it on TC.... it's been buffed compared to the old sleip you listed.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#39 - 2013-08-23 00:07:05 UTC
Vrenth wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Who here loves their Sleipnir, I mean really loves it?

It took a long time to find out how great this ship was, and now that I use it I can’t imagine playing the game without it. With the ability to tank PVP and PVE, to look at a gate camp and actually have the ability to make a decision to hit them rather than run, for linking the fit to friends when they ask what should they fly and why, yes it is or was the end all/be all of cruiser sized hulls.

But soon it will be nerfed into the scrap pile; losing 15m3 of drone space, no big deal; adding 25km of targeting range, didn’t need it Autocannons don’t care if you can lock that far out; But losing 2 turrets, 160pg and 50 cpu is a deathknell for me.

My old Sleip did 950 DPS, could tank 2000dps for 60 seconds. The new one will barely scrape 700 and change DPS and the tighter PG and CPU will make the ASB tank even tighter to fit on a ship that had only .5 cpu left in the first place.

So there goes another great ship to the scrap yard for the sake of balance.


You should actually fly it on TC.... it's been buffed compared to the old sleip you listed.

Yeah, we have came to that conclusion also. :)

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#40 - 2013-08-23 01:03:09 UTC
Lynkon Lawg wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
7 turrets * 4/3 RoF bonus * 5/4 damage bonus = 35/3 effective turrets (11.67)

5 turrets * 3/2 damage bonus * 3/2 damage bonus = 45/4 effective turrets (11.25)

Net difference: 5/12 effective turrets (.42), a 3.6% loss in DPS.

Note that with arties getting a straight 10% RoF bonus the Sleip in that configuration actually gains ~8% DPS.

Edit: still pretty pissed about the presumably impending hull switch though; I'll give you that.


Forgive my ignorance, but can someone explain how to read these equations? What does the 4/3, 5/4, 35/3 etc. mean?


They're fractions. 5/4 represents a 5%/level damage bonus at level 5 where you now have four turrets doing the work of 5. 4/3 is a 5%/level rate of fire bonus where each turret is now firing in .75 the duration -- and since .75 = 3/4 and you're dividing by it, the bonus ends up being 4/3 or 1.333. 3/2 is a 10%/level damage bonus at level 5, where each turret is now doing the work of one and a half.

35/3 and 45/4 are just the product (yes, I did that) of multiplication based on bonuses and the number of original turrets.
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