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How many carebears are needed to feed a griefer?
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Aaron Aardvark
Doomheim
#41 - 2011-11-12 02:46:20 UTC
Elric Astrius wrote:

Alright Aaron, Leave Matrix out of this... Honestly why should players constantly argue about other players or slander them if in retrospect you know that they are either going to (a) fight back or (b) just think of you as a moron or (c) both... All i know is the more that I see people targeting people like Matrix and Traci and other people who are just playing to play the game and beyond anything else if they want to interject let them but do NOT provoke them to respond

I used Matrix as an example and Traci 'provoked' me into making a reply when she started a thread in a forum called 'General Discussion'. You do understand the concept of a public forum right?
Elric Astrius wrote:
because you know something, I will defend people on here when its needed and besides this place needs to have friends and not enemies sure your "friends" might end u p popping you when you enter nullsec or help you when they see you flying in your federation's space ... What networks you make is up to you but to trash people on the forums is really looking to me that you have no class or character

You talk about 'class' and 'character' while defending someone who uses an Alt to stir up trouble on the forums. Also Elric,
Elric Astrius wrote:
bad enough when you try opening those legs of yours that bats fly out and green ooze drips out

^^ this is you hurling childish insults at another player in another thread. This makes you a massive hypocrit.
Elric Astrius wrote:
if you really think Matrix is bitter, thats HIS and his friend's business

No it isn't. He has been posting his views on a public forum for more than 2 years.
Elric Astrius wrote:
DO NOT start me on how you look to the community right now

I look better than you. You look like a massive hypocrit who doesn't understand the concept of a forum who resorts to telling people to **** off and insulting anyone who disagrees with them. People like you make the forums even shittier than before.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#42 - 2011-11-12 02:47:58 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Oh, I get it. It's just like when they "win" after they're able to warp away their stabbed Atrons before I can lock them at a gate using a battlecruiser, and are then so confident in their EVE abilities that they call me a virgin and/or insult my mother.

Winning.


You'll never hear me smack-talk you. Ever. But seriously, how hard is it to copy a ship fitting, buy some implants, use some boosts and hit F1,F2,F3? Different strokes for different folks. You're attracted to the pew pew. I'm attracted to the fact that I have 6 accounts subbed with PLEX and between them I can do pretty much anything in EVE with maxed skills. I'm sure I could fight, too - but I just don't care about it. If I want to fight I play BF3.
Aaron Aardvark
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-11-12 02:49:42 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Aaron Aardvark wrote:
How long does it take for a 'carebear' to not be bitter after they have been 'griefed' and is the amount of 'grief' they received directly related to how long they remain bitter?

Using Matrixskye/Matrixskyemk2 as an example, he has been bitter for years. What could have happened to make him so bitter after so many years? Was his corp destroyed by a war dec, did someone flip his can?

discuss

I am so flattered right now. I was one post away from thinking I didn't matter Oops.

So why are you so bitter after so much time? It's an honest question.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#44 - 2011-11-12 02:50:04 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You've "learned how to make ISK quickly," and yet you're still being severely beaten, just like you're severely beaten when you get exposed to pvp.

How did you win EVE exactly?


You don't understand my goals. Severely beaten? Because I lose an industrial ship to a gank fleet? Of course I get beaten. However I win because it's no longer important to me. You care about your petty victories and your kill mails. I care about all the times I don't get beaten. Every time I make it through Amamake or Rancer with 400 million in my hold and no one on the gate camp comes close to catching me. Every time I cloak up in low or null sec and watch a team of 10 people spend half an hour trying to find me, get bored, and leave. These are my victories. Yes, they may seem pathetic to you. As useless as your victories seem to me. We play the game for different thrills.

Victory implies triumph in conflict. The avoidance of conflict isn't a victory.

I'm not judging your playstyle. I'm certainly not saying that you're losing anything when you successfully evade player interaction. However, you certainly aren't "winning" any "victories" either. I'll make an exception for your runs through pirate hubs. Successfully evading those camps in fact does constitute "winning."

Also, claiming that you "win" when you get ganked simply because it wasn't important to you is a ridiculous concept. Not, you most certainly didn't win, no matter how you try to rationalize the event. The ganker successfully accomplished his mission, and you came out worse off, no matter how slightly.

"I didn't want that ship anyway, guys."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#45 - 2011-11-12 03:00:34 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Oh, I get it. It's just like when they "win" after they're able to warp away their stabbed Atrons before I can lock them at a gate using a battlecruiser, and are then so confident in their EVE abilities that they call me a virgin and/or insult my mother.

Winning.


You'll never hear me smack-talk you. Ever. But seriously, how hard is it to copy a ship fitting, buy some implants, use some boosts and hit F1,F2,F3? Different strokes for different folks. You're attracted to the pew pew. I'm attracted to the fact that I have 6 accounts subbed with PLEX and between them I can do pretty much anything in EVE with maxed skills. I'm sure I could fight, too - but I just don't care about it. If I want to fight I play BF3.

You'd be surprised how many "carebears" run their mouths, especially from within the safety of the station. I've been called things that would deny me entrance to heaven just for the act of quoting them. Even had real-life threats against myself and my family (which I simply ignored, of course).

I was making a generalization, but you're perpetuating a stereotype. I see a lot of these claims that those who violence the spaceboats of others are sociopathic sods who don't have the intelligence to create, and only the motor skills to destroy. But the reality is that most of "us" can do everything you can, with the additional capacity of being able to destroy the assets and ambitions of others.

All that aside, my sincere question for you is why do you play EVE Online without any drive for pvp combat, when there are so many other games out there that handle the pve aspect so, so much better?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#46 - 2011-11-12 03:26:34 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

All that aside, my sincere question for you is why do you play EVE Online without any drive for pvp combat, when there are so many other games out there that handle the pve aspect so, so much better?


I don't really do PVE either. Missions are just done to get corp/faction standing for jump clones or POS anchoring. There really are far better ways to make ISK than PVE. I hear incursions are big ISK, and I have a couple logi pilots getting logi V soon so I'll check it out. But it's not the PVE that attracts me either. I think it's just the complexity of the game. I've never seen anything this complex - I've been playing for 6 years and I still haven't done everything.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#47 - 2011-11-12 03:31:00 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

All that aside, my sincere question for you is why do you play EVE Online without any drive for pvp combat, when there are so many other games out there that handle the pve aspect so, so much better?


I don't really do PVE either. Missions are just done to get corp/faction standing for jump clones or POS anchoring. There really are far better ways to make ISK than PVE. I hear incursions are big ISK, and I have a couple logi pilots getting logi V soon so I'll check it out. But it's not the PVE that attracts me either. I think it's just the complexity of the game. I've never seen anything this complex - I've been playing for 6 years and I still haven't done everything.

So what is it that you do, then?

Please don't view that question as confrontational. You've already said that you don't pvp, and now you said that you don't pve either. Since I'm not really familiar with any other forms of "pv" I'd really like to know how you utilize your six accounts.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#48 - 2011-11-12 03:45:16 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


Please don't view that question as confrontational. You've already said that you don't pvp, and now you said that you don't pve either. Since I'm not really familiar with any other forms of "pv" I'd really like to know how you utilize your six accounts.


I build things and I research things and I buy and sell things and make loans to people and I develop characters and while all this is happening and making money for me with pretty much no effort on my part, I also mine ice. It sounds boring as hell, but I have a little one-man empire going and I like it. It's a micro-manager's heaven.

I've really never been attracted to the PvP side because it requires teamwork. And I find that other people are always late, rarely uphold their commitments and are generally unreliable. I am too impatient and I don't fit well. And solo PvP is just asking to be ganked - so why bother? If I want PvP I'll just hire a merc corp to do it for me.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#49 - 2011-11-12 03:57:14 UTC
Richard Hammond II wrote:
Quote:
How many carebears are needed to feed a griefer?


all of them



This

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#50 - 2011-11-12 03:58:09 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


Please don't view that question as confrontational. You've already said that you don't pvp, and now you said that you don't pve either. Since I'm not really familiar with any other forms of "pv" I'd really like to know how you utilize your six accounts.


I build things and I research things and I buy and sell things and make loans to people and I develop characters and while all this is happening and making money for me with pretty much no effort on my part, I also mine ice. It sounds boring as hell, but I have a little one-man empire going and I like it. It's a micro-manager's heaven.

I've really never been attracted to the PvP side because it requires teamwork. And I find that other people are always late, rarely uphold their commitments and are generally unreliable. I am too impatient and I don't fit well. And solo PvP is just asking to be ganked - so why bother? If I want PvP I'll just hire a merc corp to do it for me.

Okay.

Build things = pve
Research things = pve
Buy and sell things = pvp
Make loans = pvp (it's tricky to classify it that way, but technically, the recipient of your loan is now more competitive than his rivals)
Develop characters = can't be classified as pve or pvp
Making money = pve (from missions/ratting), pvp (by killing and looting others/playing the markets, or a combination of both (mining, then selling)
Mining ice = pve, which also becomes pvp if you sell your ice on the open market

So you definitely both pve and pvp.

Now, my second question for you is whether or not you think that your activities should be less exposed to nonconsensual player interaction (ie, pew pew and/or market pvp), more exposed, or remain the same.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#51 - 2011-11-12 04:19:32 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Now, my second question for you is whether or not you think that your activities should be less exposed to nonconsensual player interaction (ie, pew pew and/or market pvp), more exposed, or remain the same.


Bit of a loaded question that. People tend to resist change and I'm happy with the way things are. On the other hand I'm sure I could cope with a little more difficulty. So the subjective answer is - there could be a little more "nonconsensual interaction" but not too much to stop me completely doing what I'm doing. It's a pretty useless answer, but we're generalizing so it's only to be expected. The game (for my definition of "game") is easy for me now - but it took me 6 years to get here.

I certainly would not be happy if one single change in game mechanics eliminated my ability to generate wealth. On the other hand I am so diversified that this is a highly unlikely possibility. So if change comes I'll adapt. But I still won't pew pew.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#52 - 2011-11-12 04:38:57 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Now, my second question for you is whether or not you think that your activities should be less exposed to nonconsensual player interaction (ie, pew pew and/or market pvp), more exposed, or remain the same.


Bit of a loaded question that. People tend to resist change and I'm happy with the way things are. On the other hand I'm sure I could cope with a little more difficulty. So the subjective answer is - there could be a little more "nonconsensual interaction" but not too much to stop me completely doing what I'm doing. It's a pretty useless answer, but we're generalizing so it's only to be expected. The game (for my definition of "game") is easy for me now - but it took me 6 years to get here.

I certainly would not be happy if one single change in game mechanics eliminated my ability to generate wealth. On the other hand I am so diversified that this is a highly unlikely possibility. So if change comes I'll adapt. But I still won't pew pew.

Okay, so what this comes down to is that you were absolutely and objectively wrong when you said

Ptraci wrote:
I don't think there's an objective answer. I'll give you a subjective one: I don't like to lose ships. Why? Because I'm a care-bear. Care-bears don't like losing even one ship. Flying around trying to buy all the modules again and fit the damned thing, instead of doing care-bear stuff, is not fun at all.

You're not a carebear. Not losing ships doesn't make you a carebear; nobody likes to lose ships. Demanding that game mechanics be changed so that all non-consensual ship losses are eliminated is what makes someone a carebear. You've just stated that you don't want this to happen, and that you're perfectly fine with the way things are. you're even willing to cope with increased difficulty stemming from non-consensual player interaction.

If this is truly the way you see things, then you understand EVE, and I respect you as a player, even if you don't do pvp combat. As I said in a post elsewhere, it's the people who want to remove any and all non-consensual player interaction from the game to further their own "industrial" goals (what a ridiculous deduction that the former would lead to the latter) that we have a problem with. I hope that clears things up.

There's nothing else I can say to you now aside from "give pvp a shot once or twice, you might like it."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
The Old Chap
Doomheim
#53 - 2011-11-12 13:59:40 UTC
This is simple.

The more happy carebears there are, the more opportunities for griefing there will be.

Therefore, EVE needs a heapload more carebears to keep everyone happy. Plus they'll all pay their subs or buy plex, and probably be 'casual' players who only place a burden on the servers for a couple of hours each evening when they get home from work.

That's gotta be the win-win for CCP and the existing playerbase.

Look into my eyes...   and tighten that sphincter, kid.
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2011-11-12 16:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nephilius
Iceni wrote:
Just wondering what the answer is to these related questions:

How often can a carebear lose a ship, and still find their carebearing gameplay sustainable?

How many carebears does a griefer need to *pop* to make this gameplay style both enjoyable and economically sustainable?

eg: If a carebear can tolerate losing a ship once every 20 hours in-game, and the griefer need to *pop* a carebear every 30 minutes to satiate their appetite, then you need at least 40 carebears per griefer to maintain a stable environment.

Just wondering what peoples thoughts were on the sustainable ratio?

Iceni.

PS: Griefing and carebear terms used simply because you'll all know what I'm talking about. Not using these as an insult, and not supporting or condemning either game-play.


F*cking math...I hate math.

Let's just say it takes three licks to get the the center of a carebear and call it a day, yeah?

P.S. How dare you not support or condemn either style of game play? What audaciousness, what arrogance! Stone the heretic.

Just kidding. Heh.
"If."
Apophenya
Shadow Legion X
Seriously Suspicious
#55 - 2011-11-12 17:59:30 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

How did you win EVE exactly?


The only way to win EvE is not to play at all.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2011-11-12 19:36:19 UTC
Iceni wrote:
Just wondering what the answer is to these related questions:

How often can a carebear lose a ship, and still find their carebearing gameplay sustainable?

There's a simple set of three rules that describes these dynamics.

it even even had a major EVE alliance named after it.
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