Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Removing local, an effortless perfect intel source, will not tip the scales completely in favor of combat pilots. It will bring balance back to the scale of advantage between hunters and prey. At its basic form, say a pilot in a cynabal hunting and a vandicator ratting, that are both in the same system neither one has any intel advantage. Likely neither one knows the other one is there at the point of jump in. At this point it is a battle of skill: Can the hunter find the prey before the prey discovers the hunter and safes up? Neither one has the scale tipped in their favor in any way.

Now you start factoring in intel networks, cloaks, cynos, scouts, roaming gangs, etc. and I am much more comfortable with the balance in that situation than the game currently. Right now local unfairly nullifies cloaks, cynos, scouts, roaming gangs before the hunter has even loaded grid. After this change cloaks, cynos, scouts, raming gangs, etc will finally be something to be feared, but still counterable by an intel network. By removing game given intel sources, intel must be gathered by the pilots themselves. That is all I am trying to accomplish.

As far as other forms of game given intel, such as local right now and map given activity and jump records, you are right: We should remove them. Any intel should be gathered by a person, not handed to us by the game. That map info does tip the scales unfairly towards hunters. Granted not as much as local currently tips the scale towards the prey, but enough that we can't ignore it.

As far as something for the solo pilot like an IFF that would appear on D-scan or whatever, I would agree to it under the condition that it can be compromised. No intel system should be 100% fool proof. Maybe this could work like POS passwords where if your password and the other ship's password match up then they are marked friendly on D-scan. POS passwords are compromised often enough that it clearly isn't fool proof. And this wouldn't actually mark the ship as blue on any overview which would leave the integrity of an intel network in place ahile making D-scan potentially useful. I think I would go for something like that.

You'll be back in a few months complaining about how local is messing up the game.

You have this backwards.

With obviously expected intel channels, and other communications present in sov space, Local is the only thing keeping the lazy ganker flying.

If you are mining or ratting, and you are NOT using your intel channel, you are a special little rainbow who expects prancing unicorn ponies to whisk you to safety before any bad bad nasty piwates show up, yup!
That pathetic lack of effort, not using intel channels in a game where you supposedly can be shot at, speaks volumes about what a team player is and is not. Clearly you are not helping your so-called buddies by contributing to the intel either, ya selfish greedy ISK monger.

Here is something that is difficult for many to grasp, but is an important detail that those hunting will not have an advantage because of local being missing.

The advantage will always belong to whoever has sov, simply because the intel channels and patrols supplying them will be a huge advantage.

Those hunting in hostile territory will be on their own, and with no local to artificially tell them where everyone is, chances are they will have no idea.
They can, of course, guess, or do research to learn where people usually hang out, but unless someone spies for them and tips them where to look, they will be effectively blind.

Local is never the friend of PvE. PvE has a far more obvious advantage trading it in for an intel channel while the hunters are blind.

Your explanation relies on a popular myth instead of solid factual support.

I get that worm holes do not have local.
The argument that those wanting to remove local should move into a wh, falls flat due to the other differences between the two play areas.

I also acknowledge these differences make wormholes unique. This does not, however, mean that the delayed local mechanic can only work in this environment. It just means wormholes have multiple mechanics designed to isolate them and limit them to what can happen inside.

As to "ALL Evidence", I can equally say "ALL Evidence" indicates population in null will flourish, since the carebear types know that the difficulty of hostiles finding them will exponentially increase due to the teamwork of the sov holders who act in defense.

I would institute active and passive sensor modes.

Passive would emit no energy, and only receive energy from natural and artificial sources. Near a star, where energy is all over and bouncing off of everything, it can be both easier and harder to figure out what you are seeing. Like trying to hear a conversation at an airport, the background noise keeps drowning out what you are looking for.
In those circumstances, using an active scanner would be harder for another ship to notice. The artificial signal is buried underneath the wash of energy naturally present.

On the system rim, or other places with low amounts of energy presence that might interfere with sensors, passive mode could be more than enough to use for protection.
A sensor signal needs to reach you, and then back again to the sending ship, for an active signal to reveal you.
A sensor signal that reaches you, but is not coherent enough to reach back to the sending ship, does not reveal you, but you now know someone with an active sensor array is looking around. Your next move could get you to safety, if they are coming in the wrong direction to avoid you.

I would have detection of warp energy, at the entry and exit points of warp tunnels, give a non specific energy wave to any passive sensor in range. (No significant range here, but if you are close to it you know someone warped in or out close by)
(You may not be able to determine if it was coming or going, just a warp burp)

No, the game would be far superior without local, and with a better radar / scanner.

Local, as it stands, is out-dated and stale. It also makes literally no sense based on the rest of the game.

A couple of days easymode ratter ganking before the ratters move en masse to highsec L4s.

I love how it's always "remove this, nerf that" ... until it directly affects you, then it's a "no, can't have that".

Remove local "intel" - make it like WH local (you don't show up unless you talk).

WH / Null local should be the same.

Low / high-sec - leave it alone.


Will some people rage-quit? Yup - contract your stuff to me before you do that, please.

Will some people move to high-sec? Yup - they'll get bored, then move back.

WIll most people adapt? Yup - and they'll reap the appropriate rewards.


Null-bears have got to be the biggest group of forum whiners I have ever seen. Get over yourselves and move forward.

Keep EvE unique. Something it seems CCP is on the warpath to eliminate......

Oh, I agree, there are too many easy mode tools, taking the place of proper effort.

Those maps need to be nerfed, to limit only at most to daily updates from the day before.

As to scanning, yes, you can spot wrecks. It takes at least a degree of effort, and that is to be considered.
That said, these wrecks are created by activity, and should be handled that way. Clean up the camp site because it can be something others use to find you.

Effort can clear the wrecks.

As to the intel channel, it is not a big jump to making it possible to drag and drop names from the overview. Considering the nature of the change, it would be surprising if they did not do something along those lines.

A 5 to 10 man roaming gang should be unable to enter a region without being noticed. If you are operating in a system that is on your border, and not posting eyeballs onto the gate leading out, gotta say WTF dude.
If a roam comes into the system from that direction, it might be a good idea to have a gate camp on that bottleneck.

As to complete removal, you should recall the links below in my signature. I also recommend a sensor upgrade to local, in it's own thread I may have already posted previously.

The truth is, the ratters felt "safe" because they had so many brethren in system. That or our appearance was obfuscated by the long list of allies.

You hit the nail on the head though:
Ratting is too safe. -- I'm a pretty competent skirmisher, and in the 10-20 seconds it takes me to locate a ratter, + the time to warp to the target, anyone paying attention can get away 99% of the time. Hell, when I have their location pre-bookmarked, I can't even enter system, make a 1 au warp, and lock a mining barge before it enters warp.

Local, which instantly alerts players to my presence, is the most obvious culprit to "nerf". Other options include increasing the number of NPC's that tackle, putting a delay between entering system and appearing in local, etc.

I want ratters to make great isk, even with an occasional BC/BS loss. But hey should also lose those occasional BC/BS's too!

One of the things I despise about nullsec these days, it more and more pilots play the "I can't lose anything" game. Good fights, where the outcome isn't predetermined, just don't happen very often because engaging from a position of potential losses is frowned upon. Losses should be a regular part of the game!