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If you keep buffing empire how will you get people into null?
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Ardamalis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-11-12 06:33:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ardamalis
IMO, the only way to a get a majority of the population to move into nullsec would be if there were so many nullsec systems that bumping into an enemy was a rare occurrence. Triple or quadruple the current amount of nullsec, add some value to it and you will see people move. By diluting the population density so much, moving into nullsec is technically much safer; however, the same potential for pvp and combat exists.

Now I know many of us wouldn't like to see nullsec so diluted, but to be honest, it would better the clusterfuck we have right now.


I disagree with a lot of people's analysis' about highsec players. I actually think a lot of small highsec corps would love to move into nullsec if they had a good opportunity. The key word here is small corps and alliances. Not everyone wants to live in some huge megablock. A lot of people in my opinion would rather venture out with their small entourage of friends against the cold depths of space. The only problem is that your typical band of 20 or 30 close knit high sec buddies in 1 corp is gonna get steam rolled by some 500 man alliance because everyone is located so close together.

When apocrypha introduced WH space, it was a huge success. Many small corps and highsec groups moved into WH space. Now think about how often you see enemies in WH space? Its certainly not everyday but there is still quite a bit of danger. The difference between WH and nullsec is that a small group of players looking to move into a WH for a living won't immediately get WTFBBQPWNED in a few days.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2011-11-12 07:16:58 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:


TL:DR; Who cares about null? It's owned by RMT parasites and jobless folks.





Paraphrased: Those people are different. They are not as good as us. Who cares what happens to them. Actually they worthless.

That is a terrible argument. I mean really terrible, the logic behind that is the logic behind:
The international community failing to intervene for the aid of the Jews in the 1940s
The failure of the general US populace to intervene in the aid of African Americans in the south in the 1950s-60s

Actually just any major atrocity/injustice that has occurred in the last century.



But only the ones done by 'the bad guys', none of the ones committed by 'the good guys', right?
I stand by what I said, there's nothing wrong with null that wasn't directly caused by the actions of players. To draw a line from there to the Holocaust or Hiroshima or any other war crime is to become just another plop of poop in the Infotainment Supertoilet.
Seriously, switch to decaf.





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Endeavour Starfleet
#63 - 2011-11-12 07:45:27 UTC
Want to get them out there?

First and foremost implement my idea to remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked details in the topic I made.

Second keep a close eye on TiDi and use data you can to remove the entire thought of Lag in large battles.

Third Implement the idea of modular POS. So that corps can recruit more people without needlessly endangering corp assets and of course making POS life less of a nightmare.

Fourth. Make POS refining at the same level of outpost mining. 30 percent to start is BS.

#5 VASTLY improve EVE voice. If reliance on Teamspeak wasn't such a big concern more would go out into null.

#6 In game fitting interface (Or support for those making web based systems) That gives data similar to EFT and allows simulations so that newer players wont feel so overwhelmed.

#7 Implement the idea to remove recloning after pod loss. Loss of pod is a fear that keeps many away even at low replacement costs.

#8 Eventually implement a way to activate alternative rendering modes or 2D tactical displays so those with lower end computers can better experience fleet battles.
Dirty Weegie
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2011-11-12 08:01:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Weegie
You brought this upon yourself

I spend alot of time in lowsec and null but i dont live there. And everytime I venture into null and low i spend most my time trying my hardest not to get shot. (Which I happen to be very good at)

You want carebares to come out of empire? How are they meant to do it? "one dosnt simply stroll into Nullsec"

Empire - Lowsec gates are camped... Lowsec - Null gates are camped and bubbled. To Get to null is harder than stealing gold from Fort Knoxx.

The movement between empire and null has to be made easier. Easier movement means more traffic which in turn means more people getting a taste for Null life and maybe staying.

Carebares like empire because they dont know any different... and they never will because the first time they take a baby step into lowsec or null to try it out they get raped.

The only time i go to null is through WH space to skip the gate camps.. if this continues to be the only "safe" way into null then carebares will stay where they are and be none the wiser of the treasures they are missing.

If you can't win fair... Cheat

TDR is Recruiting
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#65 - 2011-11-12 08:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
JitaJane wrote:
Nobody takes the gate. It is not a risk aversion thing it is a not-bloddy-stupid thing. My mission boat is a very specific tool that is pretty much single-purpose. It kills 4s very fast so I can get on to other things. It's pretty damn useless for anything else. I'd be a fool to use it for anything else. If I am going to bring a ship into risky water it would be the neut 'Cane or one of the rifter fits I use. Boats that are ill suited to killing 4s. So your bonus room has two routes and two trees:
1.They use a mission boat.
1a. Nobody shows up and it runs exactly the same as if they had not left high.
1b. Somebody shows up and gets a neat killmail of a boat that has no chance of winning a PvP engagement.
2. They use a PvP boat.
2a. Nobody shows up and they finish the engagement a lot slower than they would have in high sec earning less than they would have if they had taken their happy @ss back to the agent and simply run another mission with the same time. (neut 'Cane will likely make it through most 4 rooms. rifter would likely get webbed and killed eventually. Never took one into a 4.)
2b somebody shows up and there is a fight. Likely against a more experienced opponent. Maybe they get lucky. Maybe they GTFO. Maybe they 'splode.
Smart money is on going back and pulling another mission. Or better if you know which missions have this retardery in them (is retardery a word? It is now.) and skip them the way most folks skip faction missions. Not trying to dump on your ideas here. I'm just saying that missioning is usually a practical sort of endeavor. And not even vaguely related to PvP. So trying to mix them up is destined to failure. My vote buff Null and put something in low worth fighting for. Maybe some added content you simply cannot get anywhere else. Because plenty of people puddle-jump over low straight to null.

No, constructive criticism is always good.

By the way, the purpose of this system would be more as an exposure tool than a pvp promotion tool. Just like jumping into a wormhole from empire, the first jump in is always absolutely safe. So, to address your points:

1a. Perfectly acceptable.
1b. Just because someone shows up, doesn't mean the missioner will lose his ship. He can always go back (and try to come back later if he wants to). Now, if the missioner is asleep at the wheel and not watching local/ignoring the combat probes on scan, then it's not really the system's fault he gets bonked. Also, he can use a scout (or better yet, a friend) to watch the gate. Remember, he's doing an extra part of the mission that pays 3X as much now. Surely he can pay a buddy to help him out?
2a. Judgment call.
2b. See 1b. Except now, the missioner is actually "looking" for a fight in some sense, or at least expecting one. Isn't this what EVE is all about?

If the missioner wants to ignore this aspect entirely and keep on grinding, then he can continue doing only the empire parts of the missions, and getting compensated accordingly. It's about time that the free meal ticket that is CNR level 4 grinding has been invalidated.

And just think about all the benefits these changes would give to everyone else. I'd personally probably grind out a few level 4 agents just to be able to use these gates instead of derping around with entry gates.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2011-11-12 08:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
buffing empire :

Solo empire incursions with large ammount of direct income

Solo lvl IV/V missions in empire with triple the ammount of direct income

Ratting at 0,5+ systems with officer and faction spawns

ABC in regular belts

anomalies and plexes include 10/10 DED in 0,5+ systems nettting incredible income

Is anything from this happening ?

No ?

I thought as much.

Anyway even if it did. The market will just crash right down. And everything will be so cheap that the income any income will become meaningless. And finally you would have "free for all" PvP. Isk could be removed, industry could be removed, everything will be sold for 1isk include officer and faction mods, therefore some T1/T2 mods could be removed. In the end remove SP and skills at all..

@Destiny

Why do you care? They/LvL 4s got nearly non-existing impact on EVE economy as far as i know. Incursions thats different story.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#67 - 2011-11-12 10:07:48 UTC
Morganta wrote:
I thought the idea was to make empire less profitable to make people move to more dangerous areas and give some life back to null.

I can fully understand making some stuff better to help pubbies not ragequit so much, but ffs guys, why not hand out free isk for staying docked up and be done with it, much easier to program into the client....

Aren't you going a bit overboard and borking your own future plans? or are the null buff plans and the min redistribution plans out the window with concarne?

and yes, I'm aware ships are getting buffs also like the DD (destroyer, not doomsday... learn naval abbreviations n00b), but I'm not talking about safety, I'm talking about pros and cons of leaving empire for the casual or even dedicated player?


Why should people go to 0.0 or Low if they don't want to.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2011-11-12 10:13:19 UTC
Morganta wrote:
I thought the idea was to make empire less profitable to make people move to more dangerous areas and give some life back to null.


You thought wrong.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#69 - 2011-11-12 11:24:07 UTC
Most of the subscribers are in hisec.

CCP makes hisec better and so makes most of the subscribers happy.

This drives more subscribers into the game, which makes CCP happy too.


Also nullsec is at a dead end with null chances to keep growing unless it is scuttled and rebuilt; makes no sense to sacrifice hisec for it, rather nullsec must live or die on its own merits.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Donna Divine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
#70 - 2011-11-12 11:32:04 UTC
Famble wrote:
Until someone can come up with a way to make null accessible to the casual, probably non-corp'd player it can't ever happen.


In what way isn't it?
I'm a casual playing solo-corp type of person and i'm currently about as far from high sec as one can possibly get in Eve.

Actually alot more fun too.
Suddenly Boom
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2011-11-12 11:43:07 UTC
The moment CCP starts trying to force players from high-sec into null is the moment EVE is finished. To assume that these players will accept change and move to null is a huge mistake - Most players are far more likely to quit the game than be forced to into a different playstyle.
Donna Divine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
#72 - 2011-11-12 11:52:53 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Right now there is no incentive to go to null besides e-peen wars. Anyone wanting to make a big chunk of isk and buy that uber ship does better in empire because the monetary gains are the same as anywhere else in the game and the risk is zero. EvE space is a conformal grey goo... I still haven't read anything that will change that in any meaningful way.

this
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#73 - 2011-11-12 14:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Ardamalis wrote:
IMO, the only way to a get a majority of the population to move into nullsec would be if there were so many nullsec systems that bumping into an enemy was a rare occurrence. Triple or quadruple the current amount of nullsec, add some value to it and you will see people move. By diluting the population density so much, moving into nullsec is technically much safer; however, the same potential for pvp and combat exists.


No, the only way to make more people go to null sec or low sec is to make it less safer for all the grieffers and low balls pvp kids just good to shoot at defenceless stuff.

Yes ganking should still be possible but you should choose very carefully your targets

Yes it should still be possible to wardec someone and get the crap out of it but this should cost a lot of isk and should have rules of engagement such has pre determinate objectives after what those being filled the wardec is stopped by concord and the looser gets some "rest" time where he can not be wardecced again so he can restructure and remake his own health

Whenever CCP finally understands that high sec is everything you want but safe for newbbies or casual players they'll make a big step, the one that will finally make a lot of cry babies go there where serious business is: low sec and null sec.

If those are empty is not because there aren't enough belts, rats bounty officer or faction spawns, rare ores/ices, rich anoms sites or moons to mine, if they don't go there is because they can safely pvp in high sec, nothing more nothing less.

EDIT: Want to spread isk instead of making big alliances trillionaires each 24h? -spread moon goo and make it deplete, make it like PI, richness should come from your corpies not from the single fact you can throw POS's wherever you want and just wait.
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2011-11-12 14:52:43 UTC
Famble wrote:
Until someone can come up with a way to make null accessible to the casual, probably non-corp'd player it can't ever happen.

Casual players play in highsec.

Players with more time to dedicate to Eve are more apt to play in nullsec.

Guess which camp outnumbers the other by a monstrous margin?

See the issue at hand?



For me, this guy nailed it. I work two jobs, I don't have a whole lot of free time to play. I would actually be interested in doing more Nulsec stuff with a corp, but it isn't fair for them that I can't make the same commitment that another player who can be on more can. So by necessity, I stay in Hisec and run a mission every few days and maybe stir the pot now and then for kicks and giggles.

Personally, I think that they've nerfed Hisec more than they have ever buffed it. Too much more and the casusals won't even have anything left to do that's actually worthwhile. They leave, and that's bad for business from CCPs standpoint. They really need to buff lowsec before any other area gets buffed, and smack some sense into the inhabitants of lowsec as well.
"If."
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2011-11-12 15:08:47 UTC
Won't they be moving tech 2 production to null-sec? or have they changed that plan?

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-11-12 15:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Morganta wrote:
I thought the idea was to make empire less profitable to make people move to more dangerous areas and give some life back to null.

I can fully understand making some stuff better to help pubbies not ragequit so much, but ffs guys, why not hand out free isk for staying docked up and be done with it, much easier to program into the client....

Aren't you going a bit overboard and borking your own future plans? or are the null buff plans and the min redistribution plans out the window with concarne?

and yes, I'm aware ships are getting buffs also like the DD (destroyer, not doomsday... learn naval abbreviations n00b), but I'm not talking about safety, I'm talking about pros and cons of leaving empire for the casual or even dedicated player?



First, you need to drop your "kill 'em all and let God sort them out" in game attitude. This does nothing to keep new players in the game when they have no clue how it works. It's equivalent to beating up on helpless infants.

Second, having more people in hisec cannot be bad for other areas of New Eden. Without an adequate environment with which to foster the learning and the interests of new players nullsec cannot exist. And you cannot put them on some kind of predefined time table in order to make your own play style more interesting. There are a lot of different style players many of whom discover pvp on their own time table, not yours.

Regardless of how you feel about the game, nullsec is more dependent on hisec than hisec is on nullsec. Without it there are no new players because quite frankly a lot of people find a game to be pointless if they're there more to facilitate other people's enjoyment rather than their own. I.E. If you beat up on new players taking advantage of their ignorance, they're not going to stick around. And honestly, there are quite a few people in this game that are nothing more than bullies, many in nullsec. Allowing this rabble to dictate how the game should be setup is self-destructive.

What hisec needs to be is a soft place, a fantasy land of sorts to entice new players. They'll get bored with it in their own time striking out, eventually, to other areas of New Eden. But one must fill thy first cup before thy second.

Don't ban me, bro!
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#77 - 2011-11-12 15:15:13 UTC
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
Morganta wrote:
I thought the idea was to make empire less profitable to make people move to more dangerous areas and give some life back to null.


You thought wrong.


sandbox game = you do what YOU want *gasp*

being forced to go places you dont want to go =/= sandbox *gasp*

People have different playstyles than you *gasp*

*thud*

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#78 - 2011-11-12 15:17:32 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Morganta wrote:
I thought the idea was to make empire less profitable to make people move to more dangerous areas and give some life back to null.

I can fully understand making some stuff better to help pubbies not ragequit so much, but ffs guys, why not hand out free isk for staying docked up and be done with it, much easier to program into the client....

Aren't you going a bit overboard and borking your own future plans? or are the null buff plans and the min redistribution plans out the window with concarne?

and yes, I'm aware ships are getting buffs also like the DD (destroyer, not doomsday... learn naval abbreviations n00b), but I'm not talking about safety, I'm talking about pros and cons of leaving empire for the casual or even dedicated player?



First, you need to drop your "kill 'em all and let God sort them out" in game attitude. This does nothing to keep new players in the game when they have no clue how it works. It's equivalent to beating up on helpless infants.

Second, having more people in hisec cannot be bad for other areas of New Eden. Without an adequate environment with which to foster the learning and the interests of new players nullsec cannot exist. And you cannot put them on some kind of predefined time table in order to make your own play style more interesting. There are a lot of different style players many of who discover pvp on their own time table, not yours.

Regardless of how you feel about the game, nullsec is more dependent on hisec than hisec is on nullsec. Without it there are no new players because quite frankly a lot of people find a game to be pointless if they're there more to facilitate other people's enjoyment rather than their own. I.E. If you beat up on new players taking advantage of their ignorance, they're not going to stick around. And honestly, there are quite a few people in this game that are nothing more than bullies, many in nullsec. Allowing this rabble to dictate how the game should be setup is self-destructive.

What hisec needs to be is a soft place, a fantasy land of sorts to entice new players. They'll get bored with it in their own time striking out, eventually, to other areas of New Eden. But one must fill thy first cup before thy second.


This guy has brains and knows how to make them work.

You deserve a big like.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#79 - 2011-11-12 15:46:02 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Why do you care? They/LvL 4s got nearly non-existing impact on EVE economy as far as i know. Incursions thats different story.


You should know by now those high sec incursions are done over and over by the same guys?
-those represent a very small % of high sec population

Let's not talk about null sec or low sec incursions because the income could make you feel high sec incursions like lvl1 vs lvl4
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#80 - 2011-11-12 16:08:00 UTC
CCP.... **** YOUR FAILFORUM!

this isnt about force, its about incentive
and you idiots thinking everyone in null is a rabid n00b shooting machine is part of the problem

news flash, more n00bs get killed in empire by people who live in empire