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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Plex Farming and Proposed Solution

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Prince Kobol
#41 - 2013-08-19 15:43:27 UTC
embrel wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:


umm pretty sure every pve system in eve is made that way.


okay. a fundamental misunderstanding. I didn't get that FW is PVE-content.



It isn't.. its player generated content like all of Eve, hence the OP Problems
Eva Ichinumi
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-08-19 15:49:22 UTC
The plex farmers will not turn into PvP pilots if plex farming would be denied.

There would just be alot of unfarmable empty plexes around.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#43 - 2013-08-19 15:51:58 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights.


Facilitate =/= Require


you didn't read my first post


I did, and I even replied to it too.

Once you chase him out of the plex, his ship isn't optimal for capturing that plex anymore is it? You won that PVP engagement - you just don't get a killmail out of it.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#44 - 2013-08-19 16:07:13 UTC
the solution are timer resets.

They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Prince Kobol
#45 - 2013-08-19 16:11:03 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
the solution are timer resets.

They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress.


You do know how plex's work right?

Once you leave the boundary (30km) the timer stops.

So if they run from every plex as soon as somebody warps in they gain nothing.

So by simply denying them the ability to stay in the plex means you win and the plex'er gets nothing.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2013-08-19 16:11:06 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights.


Facilitate =/= Require


you didn't read my first post


I did, and I even replied to it too.

Once you chase him out of the plex, his ship isn't optimal for capturing that plex anymore is it? You won that PVP engagement - you just don't get a killmail out of it.


your reply had nothing to do with my post. and having people run from every complex doesn't achieve the system's goal nor does it make an entertaining game.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#47 - 2013-08-19 16:12:01 UTC
Yet another "solution" in search of a problem, posted in GD.





☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ms 'Tardy
Pulse Lasers Anonymous
#48 - 2013-08-19 16:13:54 UTC
ITT: Farmers butthurt at the potential loss of isk from changes
Alt Alter
Alt Ops
#49 - 2013-08-19 16:14:08 UTC
1. Faction Warfare is a great system for getting fights, you dont want a ******** atron with stabs and cloak on your killboard anyways, I mean that would just be farming kills and might as well be noobships so stop worrying about catching them.
OP you have been out of FW for some time now and are really just looking to use the plexes to farm kills. Any pvp'er will fight and there you have your fight.

2. FW is in the Business tab along side agent finder, wallet, and contracts. this might be a clue to what its for. It is not in the social tab with fleets, sovereignty and corporations.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2013-08-19 16:15:18 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
the solution are timer resets.

They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress.


You do know how plex's work right?

Once you leave the boundary (30km) the timer stops.

So if they run from every plex as soon as somebody warps in they gain nothing.

So by simply denying them the ability to stay in the plex means you win and the plex'er gets nothing.

this system isn't making fights and is incredibly boring. also the plexer just moves on - they don't care about the solar system. nobody does, anymore. if they hang around for the LP, the game just turns into two guys not fighting each other, staring at each other in local, not doing anything until one leaves.
Lee Saisima
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-08-19 16:16:02 UTC
Ms 'Tardy wrote:
ITT: Farmers butthurt at the potential loss of isk from changes


Your dainty little feelings don't bring about change, only ridicule and a few laughs (cheap ones). Actual solution proposals bring about change, and then you have to gain enough momentum to get the Dev's attention.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#52 - 2013-08-19 16:17:10 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Transmaritanus wrote:
Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now.

What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now?

They farm plexes. So what?


Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever.

And here I thought I was the only one that could see this.
Alt Alter
Alt Ops
#53 - 2013-08-19 16:22:41 UTC
Lee Saisima wrote:
Ms 'Tardy wrote:
ITT: Farmers butthurt at the potential loss of isk from changes


Your dainty little feelings don't bring about change, only ridicule and a few laughs (cheap ones). Actual solution proposals bring about change, and then you have to gain enough momentum to get the Dev's attention.


If it was truely OPs intention to get the proposal to the devs he would have posted in Features & Ideas Discussion. He did not so obviously he is just wanting to have a rant/discussion, this time he picked the FW plex mechanics.
Adson Wessiri
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-08-19 16:28:31 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights.


Facilitate =/= Require


you didn't read my first post


I did, and I even replied to it too.

Once you chase him out of the plex, his ship isn't optimal for capturing that plex anymore is it? You won that PVP engagement - you just don't get a killmail out of it.



^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#55 - 2013-08-19 16:34:31 UTC
Transmaritanus wrote:
So for those in FW, I'm sure you've noticed the farmers. Stabbed, cloaked ships that orbit buttons that add no content other than running at anything that shows up within 1AU on Dscan.

Just as a regular example, here's what's wrong with the system as it is now :
[IMG]Quadrouble Stabs FTW[/IMG]

The variation is 3 stabs and a cloak on a T1 frigate, usually an atron due to the slot layout (guns and spare highslot for cloak with 3 lows for stabs)

This play style adds no content to the game. They are avoiding PvP as well as PvE, as once the ONE rat in the plex is dead they literally sit and just run down their timer.

For those of you who suck at this game, you'll probably try to say that this argument is due to "OMG HE JUST WANTS TO KILL EASY PLAYERS." To those, a cursory glance at my kill board shows I have developed a excellent system in killing these farmers. My objective here is irrelevant, other than the ending of this farming.

Obviously, we cannot ban warp core stabs or cloaks in fits, as that would adversely affect legitimate game play. To solve these problems, the button (the structure in the middle) could become a structure that can target any player running down the timer, which prevents a cloak. To nullify the stabs, either the equivalent of a interdiction bubble, or perhaps a focused warp disruption(that switches targets every 30 seconds, and has a range about 20km past the button range) would prevent no-risk timer running down. The target switching is there to not adversely affect legitimate pvp. A solo player should not be affected by this, as they can just burn out when on dscan. An afk plex alt will be affected, as by definition of AFK means they aren't looking.

Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now.




Posting in a stealth nerf noob alts thread?

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2013-08-19 16:35:03 UTC
Adson Wessiri wrote:
^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.

if the best way to win the system designed to create fights is to not fight and make fights as unfun as possible, it's a sign the system is failing.
Adson Wessiri
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-08-19 16:37:57 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Adson Wessiri wrote:
^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.

if the best way to win the system designed to create fights is to not fight and make fights as unfun as possible, it's a sign the system is failing.



If you're running away every time someone enters the plex you aren't winning the system. In fact the exact opposite. You are losing the system.
Drax Concrilla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2013-08-19 16:45:34 UTC
To those who say you've "won" by making a farmer run off I call shenanigans. If you're in the opposing militia you need to sit there and deplex it to truly "win" - but then guess what? You still haven't won because in that time the farmer just goes and farms a separate plex - you lose both the time, isk, and plex battle.

If you warp off and chase him, you still lose. He then warps back to the original plex and gains a few more seconds/minutes toward completion due to no timer resets.

The only way you "win" here is to catch and kill him.

Note: I am not saying this is impossible or whining about it, but to say that you "win" by driving a farmer off is factually incorrect.

I believe the suitable solution here is a timer reset every time someone from your militia isn't actively plexing after X minutes - preferably 5 or less. This would include cloaking.

Banning stabs or cloaks is dumb, you should never ban a module as they are a part of the game whether you like it or not. Contriving some system like in the OP isn't ideal either, as it will penalize legitimate PvP and plex activities.
Azurae
Doomheim
#59 - 2013-08-19 16:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Azurae
if your cloaking warpcorestabbed farmers were actually afk you would have no problem killing them and wouldn't need any of those measures. if they are not afk (hint: most of them are at the keyboard thats why they warp out and lead to you complaining about it) then nothing of those measures would help you since they could just burn out of range as you said and then warp off.

bottom line: your "solution" to the non existent problem would not solve anything if there was a problem....
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2013-08-19 16:47:38 UTC
no. the majority of people don't see plexing as taking solar systems, they see it primarily as a way of making money. the best way to win is to leave and discourage pursuit by making it as unentertaining as you can you can circle buttons by yourself.

the same tactic works for the purposes of taking solar systems - just come back later after everyone's bored.