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Sentry Range Issue
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Kubla-Kahn
Purple Gang
#1 - 2013-08-19 13:16:35 UTC
Drone info shows with my current fit and skills that Gards should hit to roughly 45km and Bouncers to 70. However I am hitting well out to 50 with the Gards and getting a pop up with the Boumcers that "target is out of range" at 51 with the Bouncers.

What am I missing?
Whitehound
#2 - 2013-08-19 13:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Drone info shows with my current fit and skills that Gards should hit to roughly 45km and Bouncers to 70. However I am hitting well out to 50 with the Gards and getting a pop up with the Boumcers that "target is out of range" at 51 with the Bouncers.

What am I missing?

Two things: Garde IIs have a falloff of 12km (Garde Is have 10km), and you need to have enough drone control range.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Kubla-Kahn
Purple Gang
#3 - 2013-08-19 13:55:14 UTC
Ok so drone controll range effects sentrys effective weapon range as it does say light drone controll range from my ship? Am I getting that right? Seems like that is two different measures (or should be). That would seem to cause Omni's and Drone aug mods to be in conflict.
Whitehound
#4 - 2013-08-19 14:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Ok so drone controll range effects sentrys effective weapon range as it does say light drone controll range from my ship? Am I getting that right? Seems like that is two different measures (or should be). That would seem to cause Omni's and Drone aug mods to be in conflict.

Yes and no. Yes, you are right. And no, by your logic should one be able to send a scout drone, which sits 1km from your ship, towards infinity, because it gets its command while being inside the control range.

Just fit omnis together with drone link augmentors to get more range.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Kubla-Kahn
Purple Gang
#5 - 2013-08-19 14:19:57 UTC
Yea I ran it in Pyfa and see the restriction now. That seems kinda broken from a module standpoint. Effectively CCP requires two mods to actually reach Sentry range. It should me that Augs manage drone range from ship and Omni's affect effective weapon range. Not require double mods to reach effective weapon range.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-08-19 15:10:51 UTC
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Yea I ran it in Pyfa and see the restriction now. That seems kinda broken from a module standpoint. Effectively CCP requires two mods to actually reach Sentry range. It should me that Augs manage drone range from ship and Omni's affect effective weapon range. Not require double mods to reach effective weapon range.


Whilst you've got a point, because if you wanna really push it you'll need omni's for drone optimal range, augmentors for control range and sensor boosters for lock range whilst 'normal' weapon systems will only require a sebo and a range extending module/rig so yeah you do require an extra module.

However, sentry drones will engage targets outside your drone control range of there own will, you just can't direct them.
Kubla-Kahn
Purple Gang
#7 - 2013-08-19 15:37:03 UTC
Interesting, I did not know that.

However, even on aggressive I am not finding that the Sentrys are really that aggressive. They tend to go passive after a few targets requiring an aggress request.

Maybe mine are just apathetic.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-08-19 15:43:32 UTC
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Interesting, I did not know that.

However, even on aggressive I am not finding that the Sentrys are really that aggressive. They tend to go passive after a few targets requiring an aggress request.

Maybe mine are just apathetic.


Mine enjoy shooting triggers almost exclusively, so much so that if i ever let them even select 1 target on there own i'm in for a bad day.
Kubla-Kahn
Purple Gang
#9 - 2013-08-19 15:46:52 UTC
Maybe we should trade half for half, maybe we could both get what we want then! ; )
Capt Sephiroth
#10 - 2013-08-19 15:56:33 UTC
Smooth... ;)

Sorry had to say thah. :D

Just wanted to correct you there, you said they would engage beyond your drone control range, what I think you wanted to say was that they can engage targets that are not in your ships targeting range but are in drone contol range. :)

Best regards

Capt Seph
Garak n00biachi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-08-19 16:01:11 UTC
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Interesting, I did not know that.

However, even on aggressive I am not finding that the Sentrys are really that aggressive. They tend to go passive after a few targets requiring an aggress request.

Maybe mine are just apathetic.



My experience is that you need your sentries deployed b4 you get agressed otherwise they wont do shi t....even on agressive.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-19 16:07:59 UTC
Yeah, drones set to aggressive that have just been launched won't know what to do unless they see someone taking hostile action while they're deployed.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Lynkon Lawg
Second Six Corporation
#13 - 2013-08-20 17:45:21 UTC
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Drone info shows with my current fit and skills that Gards should hit to roughly 45km and Bouncers to 70. However I am hitting well out to 50 with the Gards and getting a pop up with the Boumcers that "target is out of range" at 51 with the Bouncers.

What am I missing?


There are a couple aspects to Sentry warfare that you need to keep in mind.

1. The Optimal and Falloff for Sentries is the same statistic as the Optimal and Falloff for gun turrets. You can hit the same damage percentages at Optimal, Falloff, and 2xFalloff as those turrets. Same applies for tracking.

2. Drone control range is the distance from your ship to the target, NOT the distance of the drone to the target. This is important because if I drop Sentries, then fly out to a target I can activate the sentry to fire on it. For example, say my Warden II has an Optimal of 110km, my locking range is 80km and my drone control range is 40km (all hypothetical), I can drop a Warden 110km from a target, fly toward the target to 80km and lock them, keep flying toward the target and at 40km trigger the Warden to attack, and the target will be in the Optimal of the Warden. As a result, I am now 70km from the Sentry, 40km from the target, and the Sentry is firing on target.
Kubla-Kahn
Purple Gang
#14 - 2013-08-20 19:16:42 UTC
Lynkon Lawg wrote:
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Drone info shows with my current fit and skills that Gards should hit to roughly 45km and Bouncers to 70. However I am hitting well out to 50 with the Gards and getting a pop up with the Boumcers that "target is out of range" at 51 with the Bouncers.

What am I missing?


There are a couple aspects to Sentry warfare that you need to keep in mind.

1. The Optimal and Falloff for Sentries is the same statistic as the Optimal and Falloff for gun turrets. You can hit the same damage percentages at Optimal, Falloff, and 2xFalloff as those turrets. Same applies for tracking.

2. Drone control range is the distance from your ship to the target, NOT the distance of the drone to the target. This is important because if I drop Sentries, then fly out to a target I can activate the sentry to fire on it. For example, say my Warden II has an Optimal of 110km, my locking range is 80km and my drone control range is 40km (all hypothetical), I can drop a Warden 110km from a target, fly toward the target to 80km and lock them, keep flying toward the target and at 40km trigger the Warden to attack, and the target will be in the Optimal of the Warden. As a result, I am now 70km from the Sentry, 40km from the target, and the Sentry is firing on target.


Actually, and I will test your #2 concept, it is not what I am experiencing - my drone control range is 51 (no drone link aug) - my drone optimal (with Bouncers) is 67, my lock range is 75.

I lock at 75, drop drones at 60 and orbit (now in both lock range and Sentry optimal - activate drones on target at 65 - message I get is "outside of drone range" (or something to that effect) - I am obviously within in operational range of the drone in orbit, the drone is in its optimal range, but because the target is outside of my sentry operational range (51 without a DLA) drone will not engage.

In your note I could drop the drones at 77 (drone optimal plus falloff) then move into a point 50 from the drones and 20 from my target and it should work - That I will test.

The mechanic is off IMHO - as I stated unless your note is dead on, which would mean that as long as I was within 51 of the target and within 51 of my drones they could "in theory" hit to 100 (or at least to their optimal plus fall off.

Again, not what I am experiencing - without the DLA I get 51 km operational range of a "activated" sentry (manually activated)
Lynkon Lawg
Second Six Corporation
#15 - 2013-08-20 19:26:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lynkon Lawg
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Lynkon Lawg wrote:
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Drone info shows with my current fit and skills that Gards should hit to roughly 45km and Bouncers to 70. However I am hitting well out to 50 with the Gards and getting a pop up with the Boumcers that "target is out of range" at 51 with the Bouncers.

What am I missing?


There are a couple aspects to Sentry warfare that you need to keep in mind.

1. The Optimal and Falloff for Sentries is the same statistic as the Optimal and Falloff for gun turrets. You can hit the same damage percentages at Optimal, Falloff, and 2xFalloff as those turrets. Same applies for tracking.

2. Drone control range is the distance from your ship to the target, NOT the distance of the drone to the target. This is important because if I drop Sentries, then fly out to a target I can activate the sentry to fire on it. For example, say my Warden II has an Optimal of 110km, my locking range is 80km and my drone control range is 40km (all hypothetical), I can drop a Warden 110km from a target, fly toward the target to 80km and lock them, keep flying toward the target and at 40km trigger the Warden to attack, and the target will be in the Optimal of the Warden. As a result, I am now 70km from the Sentry, 40km from the target, and the Sentry is firing on target.


Actually, and I will test your #2 concept, it is not what I am experiencing - my drone control range is 51 (no drone link aug) - my drone optimal (with Bouncers) is 67, my lock range is 75.

I lock at 75, drop drones at 60 and orbit (now in both lock range and Sentry optimal - activate drones on target at 65 - message I get is "outside of drone range" (or something to that effect) - I am obviously within in operational range of the drone in orbit, the drone is in its optimal range, but because the target is outside of my sentry operational range (51 without a DLA) drone will not engage.

In your note I could drop the drones at 77 (drone optimal plus falloff) then move into a point 50 from the drones and 20 from my target and it should work - That I will test.

The mechanic is off IMHO - as I stated unless your note is dead on, which would mean that as long as I was within 51 of the target and within 51 of my drones they could "in theory" hit to 100 (or at least to their optimal plus fall off.

Again, not what I am experiencing - without the DLA I get 51 km operational range of a "activated" sentry (manually activated)


With your numbers, you can tell your drones to attack the target as long as your ship is within 51km of the target ship.

Let's say you drop the Bouncers, the target is 67km from the Bouncers, and, for some reason, you flew to 51km on the OTHER SIDE of the target; so you are 118km from the Bouncers, you can still attack and damage the target because the target is within your drone control range (target 51km from you) and at the optimal range from the Bouncer (67km).

Now here is another wrinkle in this. Say you are in a two-man squad. One person is a Sentry Domi with stock lock range (I think 80km or there abouts) with a full rack of drone link augmentor Is (for argument sake, let's say that pushes the drone control range to 100km) and the drone optimal is 120km. If the Domi player assigns the sentries to assist the second player, the second player can fly out to, say, 90km, lock and fire on a target and the Sentries will fire on and hit that target because, even though the Domi can't lock the target, the target falls within the drone control range of the Domi and within the Optimal of the Sentries.
Kubla-Kahn
Purple Gang
#16 - 2013-08-20 20:13:01 UTC
Lynkon Lawg wrote:
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Lynkon Lawg wrote:
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Drone info shows with my current fit and skills that Gards should hit to roughly 45km and Bouncers to 70. However I am hitting well out to 50 with the Gards and getting a pop up with the Boumcers that "target is out of range" at 51 with the Bouncers.

What am I missing?


There are a couple aspects to Sentry warfare that you need to keep in mind.

1. The Optimal and Falloff for Sentries is the same statistic as the Optimal and Falloff for gun turrets. You can hit the same damage percentages at Optimal, Falloff, and 2xFalloff as those turrets. Same applies for tracking.

2. Drone control range is the distance from your ship to the target, NOT the distance of the drone to the target. This is important because if I drop Sentries, then fly out to a target I can activate the sentry to fire on it. For example, say my Warden II has an Optimal of 110km, my locking range is 80km and my drone control range is 40km (all hypothetical), I can drop a Warden 110km from a target, fly toward the target to 80km and lock them, keep flying toward the target and at 40km trigger the Warden to attack, and the target will be in the Optimal of the Warden. As a result, I am now 70km from the Sentry, 40km from the target, and the Sentry is firing on target.


Actually, and I will test your #2 concept, it is not what I am experiencing - my drone control range is 51 (no drone link aug) - my drone optimal (with Bouncers) is 67, my lock range is 75.

I lock at 75, drop drones at 60 and orbit (now in both lock range and Sentry optimal - activate drones on target at 65 - message I get is "outside of drone range" (or something to that effect) - I am obviously within in operational range of the drone in orbit, the drone is in its optimal range, but because the target is outside of my sentry operational range (51 without a DLA) drone will not engage.

In your note I could drop the drones at 77 (drone optimal plus falloff) then move into a point 50 from the drones and 20 from my target and it should work - That I will test.

The mechanic is off IMHO - as I stated unless your note is dead on, which would mean that as long as I was within 51 of the target and within 51 of my drones they could "in theory" hit to 100 (or at least to their optimal plus fall off.

Again, not what I am experiencing - without the DLA I get 51 km operational range of a "activated" sentry (manually activated)


With your numbers, you can tell your drones to attack the target as long as your ship is within 51km of the target ship.

Let's say you drop the Bouncers, the target is 67km from the Bouncers, and, for some reason, you flew to 51km on the OTHER SIDE of the target; so you are 118km from the Bouncers, you can still attack and damage the target because the target is within your drone control range (target 51km from you) and at the optimal range from the Bouncer (67km).

Now here is another wrinkle in this. Say you are in a two-man squad. One person is a Sentry Domi with stock lock range (I think 80km or there abouts) with a full rack of drone link augmentor Is (for argument sake, let's say that pushes the drone control range to 100km) and the drone optimal is 120km. If the Domi player assigns the sentries to assist the second player, the second player can fly out to, say, 90km, lock and fire on a target and the Sentries will fire on and hit that target because, even though the Domi can't lock the target, the target falls within the drone control range of the Domi and within the Optimal of the Sentries.


Making my head hurt
Seraph Castillon
In Control
#17 - 2013-08-20 20:52:25 UTC
I'll just leave this here: if you're only at 51km you're missing some pretty important skills.
Kubla-Kahn
Purple Gang
#18 - 2013-08-20 21:17:57 UTC
Seraph Castillon wrote:
I'll just leave this here: if you're only at 51km you're missing some pretty important skills.



I'll just leave this here; OMG with perfect skills I could get 60 without a DLA!

I am so screwed at this point!

.... You may resume trolling elsewhere....
Seraph Castillon
In Control
#19 - 2013-08-20 21:38:35 UTC
That extra 9km is very relevant given the optimal + falloff of Garde II's with stacked OTL's, after all, moving back and forth to target/pick up drones isn't optimal.
Fiona Ballbuster
Home Alone 2
#20 - 2013-08-21 14:01:14 UTC
Kubla-Kahn wrote:
Interesting, I did not know that.

However, even on aggressive I am not finding that the Sentrys are really that aggressive. They tend to go passive after a few targets requiring an aggress request.

Maybe mine are just apathetic.


in my experience they only agress targets that are redboxing you(shooting)