These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

[Suggestion] ECM change.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-08-18 19:12:24 UTC
the only thing people really hate about ECM is the drones and the ECM bonused hulls. fit a jammer on a normal ship and nobody is really worried too much.
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#22 - 2013-08-18 21:21:38 UTC
Rowells wrote:

the only thing people really hate about ECM is the drones and the ECM bonused hulls. fit a jammer on a normal ship and nobody is really worried too much.


This is true, although even when reducing the bonuses the mechanic is still random which is what I'm trying to solve, not the strengths really, that is up for CCP to balance as they wish to get the desired effectiveness of it.



To clarify why I find the lock breaking mechanic so appealing is that it is a perfect fit to the balancing scheme when moving from somewhat uncertain but overpowered when it succeeds/underpowered when it fails, to certain but balanced.

When the risk of failure is removed you can obviously not have a similar jam length on the module, as it would just shut down everything too easily, so when placing a guaranteed jam the effectiveness of a successful jam must be lowered.

Instead of lowering the jam length outright I opted for the locking/lock breaking battle scenario instead, which provides a sense of meaning for both parties the whole time.
It gives a purpose/options for the locked down ship even when unable to lock it's intended target, it can still try to or pick another easier to lock target, this is an important option for the pilots with the feeble feeling of helplessness, it might be a somewhat fake option when properly chain ECM'd but it's still something to do other than hope, wait to die or self destruct.

The mechanic to over time lock off an enemy feels appealing and fitting to combat as opposed to instantly and permanently with no effort just shutting someone down for what is essentially eons in combat or not at all.

The drones problem would be quite easily solved in the sense their lock off time would be quite immense and you wouldn't just get a lucky jam straight off the bat and you fly away, they would still be effective, but you would need to plan ahead.



Thank you for posting.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Yakima DWB
Baited Sting
#23 - 2013-08-18 21:25:11 UTC
I don't believe that ECM is broken, however annoying it can be when you yourself are not the one doing the jamming. I don't like the 100% chance to work, unless the mechanic it hurts doesn't take you completely out of the fight. Not being able to lock when hit with ECM is pretty damn annoying, but for it to work 100% of the time and not be chanced based would make a lot more people avoid fighting against any fleet that fields ECM specialty ships.

The only thing that sucks about ECM in my opinion as it stands, would be that fitting ECCM to your ship gives no other bonus, nothing except better chances at not getting ECMed. It is still a nice module, just might be nice if it helped your scanres, resists, maybe better neut range while using it.... anything. that way it doesn't feel like a wasted module when you don't run into ECM ships/drones.

I think its funny there are so many changes proposed to the entire ECM system so often, and they are generally beaten down by trolls and people who realize it is working as intended... yet more posts pop up. I get more enjoyment reading the troll posts, so keep posting. Roll
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#24 - 2013-08-18 21:44:55 UTC
Yakima DWB wrote:

*civilized post*



I respect your honesty, although my suggestion is directly aimed at the randomness of ECM, but if you don't feel that's a problem then that's not a problem for you.
The point is to get it to always work, then to balance it so it gets enough power to do its intended job well and I believe here is where the opinions differ the most, what ECM should be able to do and what is balanced for it to do.
I could list a few things here that could argue against your stance but I suspect you've already read all the posts here as you mentioned you enjoy the trolls =)

I understand that having stronger ECCM to fit with alternative bonuses would be attractive but I don't feel that's the way to go, I firmly believe the mechanic just needs to change first and foremost to something which is more in line with the other E-war in terms of guarantees of functionality and weaknesses which can be exploited.
After such a mechanic change has been done, then you could revisit ECCM and see if they are more/less useful and adapt them to the new situation.

ECM may work as intended in large scale warfare because it all levels out in the numbers, in small scale warfare it is devastating and even the slightest failure/prolonged success in jams will dictate the outcome, not player skills at all.
That is the problem which I want solved, the removal of randomness and the increase of player influence and options.

Thank you for the post.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Yakima DWB
Baited Sting
#25 - 2013-08-18 22:00:55 UTC
ECM (or some new EWAR mechanic) could work very well with 100% chance at success. That's not the issue I have... My issue is what the EWAR action on my ship is.

If I am going to be completely and utterly helpless, shut down and unable to lock something, it will not be viable to have it work 100% of the time.

I agree, small scale warfare gets pretty rough when ECM is involved currently. And its been a little bit since I was in null, but its been quite a while since big fights used much ECM except as a special snowflake to jam logistics (which seems to be their most balanced use).

For a change from the chance-based ECM system we currently have, ECM would have to be nerfed in such a way that I don't think many people would want to fly it, except in small fleets. It would have to be something like 100% chance of success, lasting 20 seconds, then not being able to activate that module again for 30-60 seconds, like the cool down timer for MJD. It would work pretty well in small scale action, locking out the Logi with one or two jam mods, then hitting the ships that hit hardest with the other two or three mods. But then it would wear off and not be able to be used again for around 60 seconds. ECM spec ship would need to try to get off grid, then come back after the timer to try to create more chaos in the enemy. For this to work or still be balanced, ECCM would be able to keep ECM from working, so then people who think ahead and use ECCM wouldn't be nearly as affected by the 100% success rate. The down side of something like this being implemented though, if a vaga and a falcon fight 1v1, the falcon would have enough jam mods fitted to use each one in succession to keep jamming the vaga out long enough to kill it. Some version of that may work, but not making fully locking down a ship 100% and being able to do it repeatedly.

I'm not a fan of being jammed out, it makes you feel pretty damn useless. But it sure is nice to have it on your side, and seems fairly balanced as it is.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-08-18 23:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
This thread needs more convoluted arguments. Perhaps we can trick the devs into making ECM not work as intended by making their eyes bleed and them doubting their own intelligence from the ad-hominem attacks. I mean ECM is here and people fight with it and against it everyday, but the OP, well he's here to explain in great detail why if only he were the lead dev the game would just rock!
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#27 - 2013-08-18 23:35:46 UTC
Trolling post removed.

Forum rule 5. Trolling is prohibited.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#28 - 2013-08-18 23:42:05 UTC
Personal attack post removed.

Forum rule 3. Personal attacks are prohibited.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-08-18 23:47:54 UTC
So every post I made up until the last was trollish and a personal attack?
Previous page12