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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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SP for PLEX?

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#61 - 2013-08-18 16:23:01 UTC
Here's a simple solution that might address some of the concerns raised: limit the injection of PLEX to the number of remaps remaining. Each injection of PLEX consumes a remap and would be equivalent to one month of standard, non-bonused skill training (SP). It gives newer players the option to have a few months of extra skill training at the expense of losing future remaps, and makes characters with multiple remaps offered on the bazaar potentially more valuable.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-08-18 16:44:17 UTC

Why don't you get back in line and do your time like everyone else did..
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#63 - 2013-08-18 17:03:17 UTC
In that order:

Create contracts with all your stuff addressed to me
Log off
Log back in and click biomass.

Thank you Big smile

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-08-18 18:15:45 UTC
If SPs are the problem, let new accounts start with a bit more SPs, but never buy SPs which is very much P2W. If that is still an issue, speed up the SP/hr. But let me see... that wouldn't play well, isn't it? I wonder who is this guy who posted this thread...
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-08-18 18:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Here's a simple solution that might address some of the concerns raised: limit the injection of PLEX to the number of remaps remaining. Each injection of PLEX consumes a remap and would be equivalent to one month of standard, non-bonused skill training (SP). It gives newer players the option to have a few months of extra skill training at the expense of losing future remaps, and makes characters with multiple remaps offered on the bazaar potentially more valuable.


Do you mean like this:

Mag's wrote:
I'll agree, under the following conditions.


  1. 1 Plex buys you 1 months worth of SP at your lowest attribute configuration.
  2. To apply the SP, requires you to pause your current training.
  3. You must chose which skills you are applying the SP to, before you start the process.
  4. It takes a full month to apply the new SP and at no point can you resume the normal training queue.


If yes, then I agree with you.

Before you even ask: yes, that's the only acceptable solution.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-08-18 18:33:38 UTC
Mr Tinker Train wrote:
I for one would love to purchase SP

So many butt hurts talking about buying SP = person wins eve how stupid is that so many 2003 toons are killed by 5 month old toons every day. History has shown many times people buy 2003 toon from bizarre = ganked in juicy expensive cap you should be encouraging this for easy kills.

Whats really the point here nothing, buying SP has no game breaking advantage other then CCP might run out of skills to train big deal game would and is more enjoyable for that person.

its the same in RL ugly people say beauty is skin deep Poor people say money can't buy happiness well Bull crap this is not the issue and ccp should treat this as a business idea let people buy SP let the accountants state money = x quantity of SP

this has merit on many levels

So butt hurts state a game breaking reason other then it will ruin the game show it prove it.


This train appears to have came out from the wrong tunnel... and hence it's not even a train.
What you say makes no sense at all.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-08-18 18:40:37 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Here's a simple solution that might address some of the concerns raised: limit the injection of PLEX to the number of remaps remaining. Each injection of PLEX consumes a remap and would be equivalent to one month of standard, non-bonused skill training (SP). It gives newer players the option to have a few months of extra skill training at the expense of losing future remaps, and makes characters with multiple remaps offered on the bazaar potentially more valuable.


Do you mean like this:

Mag's wrote:
I'll agree, under the following conditions.


  1. 1 Plex buys you 1 months worth of SP at your lowest attribute configuration.
  2. To apply the SP, requires you to pause your current training.
  3. You must chose which skills you are applying the SP to, before you start the process.
  4. It takes a full month to apply the new SP and at no point can you resume the normal training queue.


If yes, then I agree with you.

Before you even ask: yes, that's the only acceptable solution.


It should apply the SP immediately but then no training should be possible for the whole month and only 1 Plex a month should be applicable. This way the balance is fair: you pay to enjoy the skills in advance. However you can be sure that this will create loads of rumors and bad reviews on internet and people will say that the game is now P2W killing new business.
Mr Tinker Train
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-08-18 20:43:44 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
And what happens with a Person who dont want or cant afford a Plex to keep Up with the Corp, its like a two class Society..



And the problem is ?????


Like RL haves - have not's big deal

So all because you can't afford something then everyone else shouldn't have it

Go do a drive by - go gank

As in real life you can either work hard to get the isk or go steal it

But - ITS NOT FAIR is not a reason this shouldn't be allowed- and its not our place to specify how much isk = SP

SP alone doesn't make a player invincible come up with valid reasons
Baygun
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-08-18 21:55:35 UTC
Mr Tinker Train wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
And what happens with a Person who dont want or cant afford a Plex to keep Up with the Corp, its like a two class Society..



And the problem is ?????


Like RL haves - have not's big deal

So all because you can't afford something then everyone else shouldn't have it

Go do a drive by - go gank

As in real life you can either work hard to get the isk or go steal it

But - ITS NOT FAIR is not a reason this shouldn't be allowed- and its not our place to specify how much isk = SP

SP alone doesn't make a player invincible come up with valid reasons



That reminds me second question: Why in EVE i can't borrow ISK like in real life?
Baygun
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-08-18 21:59:24 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
In that order:

Create contracts with all your stuff addressed to me
Log off
Log back in and click biomass.

Thank you Big smile



I'd love to if you can pay me. As you can not (because of EULA) you'll get what you payed for - nothing :) (that in case i decide to cease account)

there is no free lunch! address your complains to GOD@ heavens.org

only best regards :)
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#71 - 2013-08-18 22:04:47 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Synonyms for no

*wall off Awesomeness*



Dude lol This is the best Response I've seen in a while :P
Baygun
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-08-18 22:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Baygun
seany1212 wrote:
Every so often threads get created on Features & Ideas by a person who will throw up any counter argument, even if it doesn't make logical sense and that they haven't actually thought in-depth of the ramifications of the change.

No; reasoning being that every character created so far has been limited, as already stated here, by time, time created by the skillpoint training system. Every character in the character bazaar has taken months/years to train upto that skillpoint level and in turn created revenue for CCP in some way or form.

Now introducing Plex for SP will indeed bring in more revenue, but only temporarily, because before long you've got everybody maxed out on all available skills and everyones hot-dropping in titans and carebears have brought every available officer mod for that ridiculously overfit nightmare of theirs. Then people start to leave, just because CCP wont be able to churn out content fast enough and everyone can already fly everything anyway.

With the current system CCP doesn't need to worry about revenue for the forseeable future, because they know that every active account will provide them revenue in one way or form while that account stays active. The only thing they'll need to be concerned about is amount of active accounts, and there's ways to keep people interested and accounts active.

My question to you is why do you feel that you need SP for Plex, and why is it that you can't survive in eve without it?



Hi, thanks for reply!

1. i am still not sure bazaar is not p2w, because i can easily buy 85m SP char though my actual playtime is less than an year. From my perspective i am limited only by amount of $$ i would like to pay to get a carrier pilot.

1a. i need one if i want to join nullsec corp otherwise i can not pay the upkeep (that is example why i might need high SP char right now)

2. as you well know SP has a cap for each pilot role (ship). As far as i understood once one char gets capped usually it stops the training and alt is created to accumulate SP. Having that every single ship can be skill capped for about less than 3 years what keeps interested people since 10 years now?

3. I do not really care about CCP revenue. Having fun and relaxation time is much more important for me. Anyway those SP are not given for free (time is money = ISK=PLEX)

4. As far as i understood EVE being a sandbox game depends on players creativity to imagine and realize the game content. Not developers. Hence I do not understand why you consider SP for PLEX (that is tool not a content) a counter-productive idea.

5. I can definitely survive EVE without "SP for PLEX" as many other survived several years without Incursions, POSes and Titans, and player owned customs offices for that matter. I was asking if it is applicable because for several occasions it might be useful:
- negate to an extent T3 skill loss (not sure if that is positive consequence, though)
- negate temporary subscription drop because of RL duties (talking about 2-3 months "off grid")
- small boost of skills in case of emergency - imagine due to RL reasons the only corp member who can manage POS is away (for example sick). That can be fixed with character bazaar, but why should buy tens of millions of SP while you need million or less.

6. Ramifications. Honestly besides destruction of character bazaar i could not imagine other problem before. now i see there will be also some big market change on PLEX price. The reason that people get bored once they reach the skill cap is not valid because many, many players have reached the "soft cap" and still play. Otherwise CCP should consider what to do in 10 years when oldest player will really become "all V"
Kami3k
The Lucky Bible Company
#73 - 2013-08-18 22:59:03 UTC
Horrible idea is horrible.

It's already been said why it is so.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#74 - 2013-08-18 23:05:46 UTC
Baygun wrote:
Hi, thanks for reply!

1. i am still not sure bazaar is not p2w, because i can easily buy 85m SP char though my actual playtime is less than an year. From my perspective i am limited only by amount of $$ i would like to pay to get a carrier pilot.

1a. i need one if i want to join nullsec corp otherwise i can not pay the upkeep (that is example why i might need high SP char right now)

2. as you well know SP has a cap for each pilot role (ship). As far as i understood once one char gets capped usually it stops the training and alt is created to accumulate SP. Having that every single ship can be skill capped for about less than 3 years what keeps interested people since 10 years now?

3. I do not really care about CCP revenue. Having fun and relaxation time is much more important for me. Anyway those SP are not given for free (time is money = ISK=PLEX)

4. As far as i understood EVE being a sandbox game depends on players creativity to imagine and realize the game content. Not developers. Hence I do not understand why you consider SP for PLEX (that is tool not a content) a counter-productive idea.

5. I can definitely survive EVE without "SP for PLEX" as many other survived several years without Incursions, POSes and Titans, and player owned customs offices for that matter. I was asking if it is applicable because for several occasions it might be useful:
- negate to an extent T3 skill loss (not sure if that is positive consequence, though)
- negate temporary subscription drop because of RL duties (talking about 2-3 months "off grid")
- small boost of skills in case of emergency - imagine due to RL reasons the only corp member who can manage POS is away (for example sick). That can be fixed with character bazaar, but why should buy tens of millions of SP while you need million or less.

6. Ramifications. Honestly besides destruction of character bazaar i could not imagine other problem before. now i see there will be also some big market change on PLEX price. The reason that people get bored once they reach the skill cap is not valid because many, many players have reached the "soft cap" and still play. Otherwise CCP should consider what to do in 10 years when oldest player will really become "all V"



1. P2W is paying the game company to bypass normal game mechanics. The character bazaar is paying another player to go through the normal means of skill acquisition for you. Using the character bazaar is like going to Jita to buy a rifter instead of heading out to the belts to mine the minerals for it. PLEX for SP would be like paying CCP to magic you a Rifter.

2. It takes somewhat (almost an order of magnitude) more than 3 years to max out Subcaps, let alone capitals.

4. You don't see the destruction of a player-run market and its replacement with a CCP-run market as a bad thing in a game all about encouraging player-run things?

5. A doomsday on an Ibis would be useful. Doesn't mean it would be good for the game.

6. You don't see the destruction of a player-run market and its replacement with a CCP-run market as a bad thing in a game all about encouraging player-run things?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#75 - 2013-08-18 23:38:50 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Do you mean like this:

Mag's wrote:
I'll agree, under the following conditions.


  1. 1 Plex buys you 1 months worth of SP at your lowest attribute configuration.
  2. To apply the SP, requires you to pause your current training.
  3. You must chose which skills you are applying the SP to, before you start the process.
  4. It takes a full month to apply the new SP and at no point can you resume the normal training queue.


If yes, then I agree with you.

Before you even ask: yes, that's the only acceptable solution.


Yes to 1 and 2, with the caveat that it's a fixed amount of SP. Since you can only apply a number of PLEX equal to available remaps, there's no need for 3 and 4. SP points are simply added and you can apply to top up or as needed anytime (this would function similar to how it worked when CCP compensated us with SP points for server downtime). Making remaps a prerequisite essentially limits this to an annual feature for all intents and purposes.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-08-19 00:18:24 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
I'd be happy if they stopped essentially handing SP to existing/active players for free. You know, like the 4.6m free SP everyone got with the battlecruiser change.

That was not a bonus but a penalty to existing players as they essentially got additional SP (often with clone cost increase) without any benefit at all.


They get to fly all BCs for 1.56m SP of training time. All future players need to train four times as much to fly all BCs.


I fly purely caldari and my clone cost went up unnecessarily!
Mr Tinker Train
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-08-19 00:23:21 UTC
Baygun wrote:
Mr Tinker Train wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
And what happens with a Person who dont want or cant afford a Plex to keep Up with the Corp, its like a two class Society..



And the problem is ?????


Like RL haves - have not's big deal

So all because you can't afford something then everyone else shouldn't have it

Go do a drive by - go gank

As in real life you can either work hard to get the isk or go steal it

But - ITS NOT FAIR is not a reason this shouldn't be allowed- and its not our place to specify how much isk = SP

SP alone doesn't make a player invincible come up with valid reasons



That reminds me second question: Why in EVE i can't borrow ISK like in real life?




Well this also is a good addition can be coded into game for sure I like this idea also Idea
Mr Tinker Train
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-08-19 00:28:15 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
[quote=Baygun]



3. I do not really care about CCP revenue. Having fun and relaxation time is much more important for me. Anyway those SP are not given for free (time is money = ISK=PLEX)








Well ccp don't make money then the game you allege to love would close. try thinking with your head out your ass
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-08-19 00:43:45 UTC
Screw sp, how about Sex 4 Plex!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#80 - 2013-08-19 01:52:35 UTC
Mr Tinker Train wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
[quote=Baygun]



3. I do not really care about CCP revenue. Having fun and relaxation time is much more important for me. Anyway those SP are not given for free (time is money = ISK=PLEX)








Well ccp don't make money then the game you allege to love would close. try thinking with your head out your ass



That's some interesting quoting habits you got there.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon