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Warfare & Tactics

 
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War on ISBoxers

Author
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-08-15 22:57:30 UTC
Rain6638 wrote:
the most effective war on isboxing would be finding a way to get CCP to ban it.


I am totally against banning anything, if someone thinks having more of him self to control at the same time is a good idea go ahead, but has long that it gets a bit harder has you have more people.

An example would be ice belts, they where horribly easy to multiply profit by amount of accounts you had. They still are, but at less you need to do something more then act like a single ship + a hualer.
Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2013-08-18 15:12:45 UTC
again, I don't use ISBoxer.

I think you might be close to the best solution for how to overcome a multibox group, which would be no locks possible on any of the hulls. but I think there's more room for discussion.

there are a few things to keep in mind about a multibox gang.
-advantage is coordination. with practice, 8 clients does become "normal"
-disadvantage is ship micromanagement
-the multibox gang has a plan and ideal target
-there are weapon systems in the game that do not require locks and are automated
-if the multiboxer is irl rich or space rich, the number of clients can just be scaled up

drones:
[any number of] sentry boats linked via ISBoxer can switch drone assist/guard simultaneously. one 200km drone bunny with signal amplifiers, sitting outside of your gang's targeting range makes damping the drone boat hulls pointless.

coordination:
you'll need to coordinate primaries with tags--the characters' names can be similar, or even indistinguishable--"RainXXXX" is being nice about it; "IllIIlIIlI" would be more nasty.

AOE weapons:
if the drone boats are hugging a gate, you can't smartbomb.

pick your targets:
just like how you pick your engagements, the multiboxer will pick theirs.
-if you've jumped into a very controlled situation or location--to a cyno beacon (trap) or a gate, and the multiboxer is engaging, it might be reason to worry.
-if you are catching a multiboxer on the move, however, they'll have their hands full and you might have a decent shot.

lemme know what you think. it was a good point that really, it comes down to being able to tank/dps any gang.

[ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337

Garak n00biachi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-08-18 19:21:13 UTC
imo theres a difference between some dude with 5 screens and a account on each of them and some dude that minimizes 15 accounts and has all of its buttons shown and interact-able on just 1 screen....
Rain's picture vs isboxer.....one is multiboxing the other is just bullshit....i mean people doing incursions with their own entire fleet for example....is that really how they want this game to be played? 0.o
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-08-18 21:19:36 UTC
Solutio Letum wrote:
Its been a subject for a while that people cant do anything about someone having 12 accounts with 4 guards, well i multibox mainly because i have triple screen and i logi often enough with 3 T1 amarr logistics in FW, so maybe i see something differently?....

Tactic:

Use modules to make different problems in different screens that he does not see (probable)
ECM:
-cycle and jam different logistics ship, creating the problem of him having to re lock
Damps:
-cycle ships again with allot of damps, when you see hes chain broken you can instead of range damp sensor damp

You can combine ECM and Damps for greater effect

Neuts:
-When jammed if you are in range of hes logistic team its a good dea to have single neuts on every ship, because most logis can still rep with 2-3 RR module even without a chain.(if setup for cap ether then EW resistance)

Webs:
They will need to move no matter what subcap warefare does not come static, if they are meant to kite bringing a webbing ship to leave one behind is important, just make sure they cant kill you so pick something like a frigate to web. Or a T2 recon

And there you go, thats why you dont see allot of them in PvP, i know people said its IMPOSSIBLE to beat them when they get that much, but here you have some tips and tricks that enables you do kill a few of them with only 1-2 ships even.

The idea came to me when i saw people using ISBoxer on test server, i saw he had 4 guards on grid with like 10 BS's, so i though well lets take a Falcon on grid an annoy them, Multiboxers or not. He finish a few minutes after leaving grid giving up by how hard keeping up with the chain was.
Then he came back in hes regular setup, 10 Moros's... well something like that i dont remember the exact numbers

But multiboxing is not easy, its just easy when you make it easy on him and try to fight what hes trying to resist, instead use things rats dont do and that hes not trying to resist. And make sure you cycle around, thats my biggest problem when multiboxing even when seeing whats happening, i cant keep up with the change of DPS + Neuts + Damps Cycle or ECM. Dont just try to perma jam a single ship and perma neut another.

Toy him a bit.

Any how that's just logic to me but hopefully it helps someone out.
Or, just use the bat-phone.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

GreenSeed
#25 - 2013-08-18 22:40:22 UTC
bat-phoning to kill 250m - 400m isk? you want to lose your phone privileges?

but if like the op said, you see 10 dreads being multiboxed, then yeah, hilarity ensues.
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-08-18 23:04:41 UTC
Garak n00biachi wrote:
imo theres a difference between some dude with 5 screens and a account on each of them and some dude that minimizes 15 accounts and has all of its buttons shown and interact-able on just 1 screen....
Rain's picture vs isboxer.....one is multiboxing the other is just bullshit....i mean people doing incursions with their own entire fleet for example....is that really how they want this game to be played? 0.o


Who cares how they Want the game to be played?
Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2013-08-21 15:17:17 UTC
Garak n00biachi wrote:
imo theres a difference between some dude with 5 screens and a account on each of them and some dude that minimizes 15 accounts and has all of its buttons shown and interact-able on just 1 screen....
Rain's picture vs isboxer.....one is multiboxing the other is just bullshit....i mean people doing incursions with their own entire fleet for example....is that really how they want this game to be played? 0.o

Thanks for the kind words, my fair ginger maiden(u sexay)

I'm pretty sure I will try a hybrid setup. Non-overlapping clients w/ an ISBoxer control screen.

I think it just comes down to numbers. Maybe figure a multiboxer will disengage in a situation where they are nearly matched at 90% of their DPS. Because favorable margin, and 90% is probably more like 75% due to skills and poorly coordinated fitting. For a multiboxer, DPS and tank are a buffer for reaction time.

It's also my opinion that more players engage in multiboxing than character names and employment histories indicate. I like to grow Rains for RP reasons, but characters can easily be purchased and put in a gate camp. I also have non-rain alts to watch gates--as in, every gate in a system.

I keep returning to the gate scenario because it's predictable.

Lowsec pirates might have put themselves in a pocket with a Titan bridge... but that type of existence is repetitive and boring, and difficult to rally people around. While it's plausible it's a gang of people with comms on a lowsec excursion, with access to a Titan, in contrast it's easy for one multiboxer to live in a lowsec pocket and remain motivated by gate camps, since it's one of the few situations that is predictable and favorable to their setup.

Side note: When I look at a corp's membership attributes, I subtract five-ish and divide the difference by 3 or 4. To me, most corps appear to be one to three people with alts.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself. I'm visiting family out of state and I don't recall what I've written so far (and cba to look lol)

[ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337

FuzzyButt
The Lazy Crabs
#28 - 2013-08-25 10:40:54 UTC
I use IsBoxer all the time =)

Not for doing 5 pvp ships but its nice if you have sevral screens too have many accounts open for Cynos Haulers and all those nice things like links and stuff =)

Makes having alt's a dream ^^
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
#29 - 2013-08-25 14:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Korvus Falek
GreenSeed wrote:
are you people dense? "counter to multibox"? what the hell are you talking about? how about we change that to "counter to small fleet flying xxxx doctrine"?

10 caracals with 4 ospreys as support? how about you drop 10 mallers with augoros as support?

anything else is you being ******** and trying to come up with some idiotic and over complicated solution to a very simple problem...


I like this guy.

Also, I use ISboxer. Below is the first version of my fleet, mining of course, to get used to using the dashboard setup before using it in missions or other combat stuff. Its been adjusted since then, (locations and size of windows and such) but its a pretty damn efficient setup. If anyone who multiboxes 3+ accounts doesnt use ISBoxer, they're doing it wrong.

http://i.imgur.com/nMOfpSI.jpg


((Side note, I did pay 10 misk per miner for my New Order Mining Permits, because its the right thing to do, even just as a rare visitor to high sec space, the domain of James315))
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-08-25 14:48:36 UTC
Korvus Falek wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
are you people dense? "counter to multibox"? what the hell are you talking about? how about we change that to "counter to small fleet flying xxxx doctrine"?

10 caracals with 4 ospreys as support? how about you drop 10 mallers with augoros as support?

anything else is you being ******** and trying to come up with some idiotic and over complicated solution to a very simple problem...


I like this guy.

Also, I use ISboxer. Below is the first version of my fleet, mining of course, to get used to using the dashboard setup before using it in missions or other combat stuff. Its been adjusted since then, (locations and size of windows and such) but its a pretty damn efficient setup. If anyone who multiboxes 3+ accounts doesnt use ISBoxer, they're doing it wrong.

http://i.imgur.com/nMOfpSI.jpg


((Side note, I did pay 10 misk per miner for my New Order Mining Permits, because its the right thing to do, even just as a rare visitor to high sec space, the domain of James315))


lols look at what i was telling you, now hes trying to see all the locks, but he only has space for 3 locks per ship, its fine keep mining. I have more then 3 accounts and don't boter with ISKboxer, i just got a few screens so i can see everything. Proper equipment lets say.
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
#31 - 2013-08-25 15:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Korvus Falek
Solutio Letum wrote:
Korvus Falek wrote:
stuff


lols look at what i was telling you, now hes trying to see all the locks, but he only has space for 3 locks per ship, its fine keep mining. I have more then 3 accounts and don't boter with ISKboxer, i just got a few screens so i can see everything. Proper equipment lets say.


Its ok that you missed the part where I said its the first variation and that its been changed a bit since then. I wasnt trying to see all the locks at once, I only wanted 3 targets viewable at a time for the mining fleet. Its since been expanded for all pilots to 5 since I dont need to see more than that as logi in my 5 person fleet, and watchlists have been added as well to make it a bit easier to re-target fleet members for the logi part of it. The first and second versions were also before I found out you could change the size of the viewing window compared to the source window and still keep it readable if the ratio was the same.

Perhaps you should try using your brain and realize things change over time =)
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-08-25 15:31:38 UTC
Korvus Falek wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
Korvus Falek wrote:
stuff


lols look at what i was telling you, now hes trying to see all the locks, but he only has space for 3 locks per ship, its fine keep mining. I have more then 3 accounts and don't boter with ISKboxer, i just got a few screens so i can see everything. Proper equipment lets say.


Its ok that you missed the part where I said its the first variation and that its been changed a bit since then. I wasnt trying to see all the locks at once, I only wanted 3 targets viewable at a time for the mining fleet. Its since been expanded for all pilots to 5 since I dont need to see more than that as logi in my 5 person fleet, and watchlists have been added as well to make it a bit easier to re-target fleet members for the logi part of it. The first and second versions were also before I found out you could change the size of the viewing window compared to the source window and still keep it readable if the ratio was the same.

Perhaps you should try using your brain and realize things change over time Cry


Well no, you still cant keep up with the information, at 5 ships is hardly possible for a human brain to keep up, its known you can only keep up to 5 thins in your memory at once, a bit like you only see 60 fps, its not clear like bytes, but its a limit.
Showing your self all the information means you'll trip out on how much things you need to look over on, if its changing all the time.
Try to keep up with a few different EW, neuts switching around, cap empty here, DPS going from A to B, lose locks on logi A but dont know till you look at it again, and with what ever you are trying to move to with your fleet.

Its not possible, a normal fleet fight will even become hard, its not like ISDboxer will help you more then 3 screens will.
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
#33 - 2013-08-25 16:00:58 UTC
Solutio Letum wrote:
Korvus Falek wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
Korvus Falek wrote:
stuff


lols look at what i was telling you, now hes trying to see all the locks, but he only has space for 3 locks per ship, its fine keep mining. I have more then 3 accounts and don't boter with ISKboxer, i just got a few screens so i can see everything. Proper equipment lets say.


Its ok that you missed the part where I said its the first variation and that its been changed a bit since then. I wasnt trying to see all the locks at once, I only wanted 3 targets viewable at a time for the mining fleet. Its since been expanded for all pilots to 5 since I dont need to see more than that as logi in my 5 person fleet, and watchlists have been added as well to make it a bit easier to re-target fleet members for the logi part of it. The first and second versions were also before I found out you could change the size of the viewing window compared to the source window and still keep it readable if the ratio was the same.

Perhaps you should try using your brain and realize things change over time Cry


Well no, you still cant keep up with the information, at 5 ships is hardly possible for a human brain to keep up, its known you can only keep up to 5 thins in your memory at once, a bit like you only see 60 fps, its not clear like bytes, but its a limit.
Showing your self all the information means you'll trip out on how much things you need to look over on, if its changing all the time.
Try to keep up with a few different EW, neuts switching around, cap empty here, DPS going from A to B, lose locks on logi A but dont know till you look at it again, and with what ever you are trying to move to with your fleet.

Its not possible, a normal fleet fight will even become hard, its not like ISDboxer will help you more then 3 screens will.


Having all the information condensed and more organized means you dont have to look over at it, like another screen. You will near instantly see you are jammed. With a dashboard setup, you will have all vital information at hand. Yes, its difficult to manage neuts and jams, but its not impossible and with practice, using 5 accounts in this fashion becomes "normal", as someone mentioned before. Digesting massive amounts of information becomes easier over time and the issues you describe become second nature to counter.

Its also *ISBOXER*. Dunno why you're fat fingering it every time you type it out.....
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-08-25 16:03:08 UTC
Korvus Falek wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
Korvus Falek wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
Korvus Falek wrote:
stuff


lols look at what i was telling you, now hes trying to see all the locks, but he only has space for 3 locks per ship, its fine keep mining. I have more then 3 accounts and don't boter with ISKboxer, i just got a few screens so i can see everything. Proper equipment lets say.


Its ok that you missed the part where I said its the first variation and that its been changed a bit since then. I wasnt trying to see all the locks at once, I only wanted 3 targets viewable at a time for the mining fleet. Its since been expanded for all pilots to 5 since I dont need to see more than that as logi in my 5 person fleet, and watchlists have been added as well to make it a bit easier to re-target fleet members for the logi part of it. The first and second versions were also before I found out you could change the size of the viewing window compared to the source window and still keep it readable if the ratio was the same.

Perhaps you should try using your brain and realize things change over time Cry


Well no, you still cant keep up with the information, at 5 ships is hardly possible for a human brain to keep up, its known you can only keep up to 5 thins in your memory at once, a bit like you only see 60 fps, its not clear like bytes, but its a limit.
Showing your self all the information means you'll trip out on how much things you need to look over on, if its changing all the time.
Try to keep up with a few different EW, neuts switching around, cap empty here, DPS going from A to B, lose locks on logi A but dont know till you look at it again, and with what ever you are trying to move to with your fleet.

Its not possible, a normal fleet fight will even become hard, its not like ISDboxer will help you more then 3 screens will.


Having all the information condensed and more organized means you dont have to look over at it, like another screen. You will near instantly see you are jammed. With a dashboard setup, you will have all vital information at hand. Yes, its difficult to manage neuts and jams, but its not impossible and with practice, using 5 accounts in this fashion becomes "normal", as someone mentioned before. Digesting massive amounts of information becomes easier over time and the issues you describe become second nature to counter.

Its also *ISBOXER*. Dunno why you're fat fingering it every time you type it out.....



Ok then show me these screen shots with kill mails when you get them
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#35 - 2013-08-25 18:07:08 UTC
Flying one ship better than 5 average players is worth more than an average player multiboxing 5 ships.

"Play better ffs", a mantra better than any exploit or 3rd party application.
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
#36 - 2013-08-25 19:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Korvus Falek
Solutio Letum wrote:
stuff and


Ok then show me these screen shots with kill mails when you get them


I dont need to prove or show anything to you, I know what Im capable of and what i am not able to do (boundaries that I attempt to push further than I should at times). I was just providing my viewpoint of using ISboxer/multiboxing for the sake of debate/argument/whatever.
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-08-25 21:11:19 UTC
With ISBoxer people can multibox entire Incursion fleets. I personally do agree ISBoxer should be bannable since its giving a massive advantage to people and causes EVE to cross onto Pay To Win which it shouldn't be.

People +2B ISK per hour with the ISBoxer incursion fleets I really do agree ISBoxer should be banned.
Cauldron Asai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-08-26 03:07:20 UTC
umm i dont even multi anything lol.. but have you even looked it up.. i doubt it will be banhammered its got EVE tm all over the place. just saying
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-08-26 03:16:53 UTC
Cauldron Asai wrote:
umm i dont even multi anything lol.. but have you even looked it up.. i doubt it will be banhammered its got EVE tm all over the place. just saying


What? ban hammer? (lols)

i said about.... i wont count, but i said i did not want anything to get banned
This is a thread for PLAYERS on ideas on how to kill these guys.

Some people lack of information, that's also why i posted this in here ya know?...
Cauldron Asai
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-08-26 03:42:37 UTC
ya i get that but it was mentioned in a couple post's .. i'd like to think a corp would be able to handle a ISBoxer or multi ..but whatever call me old school