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Kill the raven navy issue
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Kara Corvinus
The Empyrean Order
#1 - 2013-08-18 08:41:26 UTC
before i get flamed,

Amarr :
Apoc ni - gun boat
ni Geddon - guns & drones

Gallente :
mega ni - gun boat
domi ni - drone boat


Minmatar :
Tempest ni - gun boat
Typhoon ni - missile boat

You can probably see where im going with this ...

caldari :
Raven ni - missile boat
Scorpion ni - missile boat

Why is it caldari get 2 boats with basically the same roles, where as with other racial's they have a huge difference in how the ships can be fitted / used.

Obvious suggestion :

The rokh navy issue - gun boat.

Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes

but isn't my argument solid enough to justify it? :P
ELWhappo Sanchez
#2 - 2013-08-18 08:58:54 UTC
raven is a lot better torp boat than a scorp.
scorp is a em boat raven is a dps missile / torp boat.
if anyone of those should be nixt it's the scorp because the rattler is a lot better than the navy scorp.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#3 - 2013-08-18 09:12:24 UTC
The Caldari ships are pretty different to each other. Certainly as different as the Amarr ones. Both use missiles but the Raven has damage application bonuses rather than pure dps+tank bonuses.

+1 for more Navy BS however. I want a even bigger more awesome Abaddon in the navy paintscheme :D
No issues with it being laser only either :p
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#4 - 2013-08-18 09:12:30 UTC
Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#5 - 2013-08-18 09:23:12 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you.

Kara Corvinus wrote:
Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes

L2read issue?

p.s. I want Maelstrom FI too.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#6 - 2013-08-18 09:35:48 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you.

Kara Corvinus wrote:
Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes

L2read issue?

p.s. I want Maelstrom FI too.


L2getjokes issue?

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Kara Corvinus
The Empyrean Order
#7 - 2013-08-18 09:38:23 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you.

Kara Corvinus wrote:
Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes

L2read issue?

p.s. I want Maelstrom FI too.


L2getjokes issue?


L2befunny?
Whitehound
#8 - 2013-08-18 09:39:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
The Armageddon NI is not a drone boat. When you think its 125mbit/s drone interface makes it a drone boat then you also have to think of the Scorpion NI as a gun boat, because it can fit turrets. You then only look at it from a racial point of view, but the more skillpoints players have the more likely it is for them to fly more than one race of ships. So you also have to look across race boundaries:

Missile boats:
Raven NI
Scorpion NI
Typhoon FI

Gun boats:
Apocalypse NI
Armageddon NI
Megathron NI
Dominix NI (can fit turrets and gets a bonus to it despite being an obvious drone boat)
Tempest FI
Typhoon FI
Scorpion NI (can fit turrets)

Drone boats:
Dominix NI
Typhoon FI (has got 125mbit for drones)
Armageddon NI (has got 125mbit for drones)
Megathron NI (has got 125mbit for drones)

If you ignore the drone bandwidth then it is the drone boats that are under-represented. If you count it in then it is missile boats that are under-represented. Anyhow, it is really the faction gun boats that are over-represented.

It is also an advantage for Caldari to have two missile boats, because players only need to train for one weapon system and for one racial battleship to choose from two faction ships.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#9 - 2013-08-18 09:44:59 UTC
Kara Corvinus wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you.

Kara Corvinus wrote:
Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes

L2read issue?

p.s. I want Maelstrom FI too.


L2getjokes issue?


L2befunny?


Is this the Twilight Zone?!

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Kara Corvinus
The Empyrean Order
#10 - 2013-08-18 09:46:57 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
The Armageddon NI is not a drone boat...



The point isn't the theory , its the application.

ni geddons will use heavy's and sentrys because, they can. but your digging into a area which has nothing to do with my thread.

we can discuss the in's and outs on what classes as a drone boat all day, but the fact is a ni geddon is used very differently then a apoc ni. People will argue the scorp ni & raven NI are different, but lets be honest, not that much, one tanks a bit more, the other shots abit more.

But thank you for stopping by to make a huge completely pointless post, because some ships have a couple of gun slots.

If your happy with the difference between the scorp ni and raven ni because the scorp has a couple of gun slots,

your playing eve wrong.
Kara Corvinus
The Empyrean Order
#11 - 2013-08-18 09:48:01 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:


Is this the Twilight Zone?!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

maybe.....
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#12 - 2013-08-18 09:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
God damn it, i never get out of here...

Anyway, i want new Battleships instead something more roaming-able as the current BS, something between attack Battleships and Battlecruiser.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Whitehound
#13 - 2013-08-18 09:57:26 UTC
Kara Corvinus wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
The Armageddon NI is not a drone boat...



The point isn't the theory , its the application.

ni geddons will use heavy's and sentrys because, they can. but your digging into a area which has nothing to do with my thread.

we can discuss the in's and outs on what classes as a drone boat all day, but the fact is a ni geddon is used very differently then a apoc ni. People will argue the scorp ni & raven NI are different, but lets be honest, not that much, one tanks a bit more, the other shots abit more.

But thank you for stopping by to make a huge completely pointless post, because some ships have a couple of gun slots.

If your happy with the difference between the scorp ni and raven ni because the scorp has a couple of gun slots,

your playing eve wrong.

I am only giving you another view on the topic. You do not have to embrace it or be thankful for it. You can stay as narrow-minded as you are. It is fine by me.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#14 - 2013-08-18 13:19:48 UTC
One ship that must be fixed is typhoon fleet issue since it's the worst missile boat .It's too difficult to equip because of CPU and also the tank is horrible cause of the 5 meds slots it has which the 2 must be used for target painters if you want to make some good applied damage.Else a lot of its damage goes wasted .

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#15 - 2013-08-18 13:28:12 UTC
well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...

it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.

Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Whitehound
#16 - 2013-08-18 13:29:50 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...

it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.

Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have.

Try the Ferox with blasters and Null M.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#17 - 2013-08-18 13:33:13 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...

it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.

Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have.

Try the Ferox with blasters and Null M.


the problem the ferox has is the drake is just plain better .. more tank granted is slightly slower , better dps to projection ratio and an extra mid slot.... now maybe when they nerf HAM's range to where it should be it might be more competitive but still .....

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Whitehound
#18 - 2013-08-18 13:36:33 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...

it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.

Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have.

Try the Ferox with blasters and Null M.


the problem the ferox has is the drake is just plain better .. more tank granted is slightly slower , better dps to projection ratio and an extra mid slot.... now maybe when they nerf HAM's range to where it should be it might be more competitive but still .....

The Drake cannot fit turrets and you have said it did not have good blaster boats. The Ferox is a good blaster boat. If a missile boat is better is not the point here.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#19 - 2013-08-18 13:43:17 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...

it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.

Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have.

Try the Ferox with blasters and Null M.


the problem the ferox has is the drake is just plain better .. more tank granted is slightly slower , better dps to projection ratio and an extra mid slot.... now maybe when they nerf HAM's range to where it should be it might be more competitive but still .....

The Drake cannot fit turrets and you have said it did not have good blaster boats. The Ferox is a good blaster boat. If a missile boat is better is not the point here.


Well perhaps.. but the main point of the thread and main bulk of my inital post is that CCP heavily favour missile ships over the gun ships.. i'll grant you the ferox is a decent blaster boat but it is still underwhelming and there are multiple better options on the gallente side of blaster ships... caldari lack blaster options bottom line which is the main point of the thread is caldari need more gunships and less missile ships which there are plenty of now.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Whitehound
#20 - 2013-08-18 13:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Harvey James wrote:
Well perhaps.. but the main point of the thread and main bulk of my inital post is that CCP heavily favour missile ships over the gun ships.. i'll grant you the ferox is a decent blaster boat but it is still underwhelming and there are multiple better options on the gallente side of blaster ships... caldari lack blaster options bottom line which is the main point of the thread is caldari need more gunships and less missile ships which there are plenty of now.

Caldari has always been the race with the most missile ships. This is a feature and not an issue. You do not see anyone complaining about the blue background images of the Caldari ships either, because it too is a feature of the Caldari race. I am sure you get a short description of each race when you select your character and start your skill training for the first time. If anything then one would have chosen the wrong race, but overall are missile ships not over-represented. You then do not see Gallente pilots complaining about not having any missile and laser ships. The issue the OP has got simply does not occur to most pilots.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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