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Electronic Attack Frigates: Rebalanced?

Author
Ovv Topik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-08-17 17:28:13 UTC
Are they due to be rebalanced? Because I cant see htat they have been done.

Was planning on training the skill, but if it's imminent I might hold off.

It's not like I'm short of stuff to train!

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#2 - 2013-08-17 18:50:27 UTC
Nothing yet. Supposedly on the short list for rebalancing.
Pannax Ni
Pinch n' Plex
#3 - 2013-08-19 18:28:53 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Nothing yet. Supposedly on the short list for rebalancing.


Have they hinted at an AF Balance aswell?
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-08-19 19:15:06 UTC
All tech II frigates are due to be looked at in a rebalance, but they haven't announced when. I think the HACs leapfrogged them because they were in a such a sad state, and the command ships got rebalanced because it's part of a more comprehensive fleet boosting overhaul.

They'll let you know when the tech II frigates get looked at.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#5 - 2013-08-19 19:41:09 UTC
Stealth Bombers and AF were both rebalanced before CCP Fozzie took the stage. They are in a pretty good place. Little things - like the Ishkur drone bay bonus- might need a relook but I don't see a full fledged rebalance for the two ship classes. EAF and interceptors need some love more then anything else.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#6 - 2013-08-20 01:51:42 UTC
Some interesting stats:
Hyena - having a slight rebound in usage (probably due to Polska Kielbasa's unhealthy love for the ship)
Keres - used twice as much, but still hardly utilised
Kitsune - disappearing fast, soon to be extinct. Not sure why but ECM soft nerfs don't account for it.
Sentinel - about as popular as the Hyena, and staying steady.

Now, compare these to the Navitas . Prior to buffing, it died almost exactly as many times as it was used. Now, it actually turns up on killmails without being the victim.

The Breacher, likewise, used to just be a lossmail creator and now it is performing well.

But as Zarnak says, interceptor use is declining. it started well before the advent of T1 frigate rebalance.

See for instance the Crow versus the Condor. The Condor is one of the most used frigates in the game and even though the Crow has the same role, it is has basically the same abilities, and is just far too expensive to field.

Likewise, the Executioner has mostly obsoleted the Crusader.

This shows that not just HACs, all T2 ships are being made relatively obsolete and difficult to justify, ISK wise, because their T1 counterparts are being buffed from uselessness into being useful and ISK efficient.

In the case of Electronic Attack frigates we need to consider their T1 EW frigates (Vigil, Maulus, Crucifier, Griffin) usage.

The Vigil is increasing in use, but is still relatively uncommon as a battle frigate. Where it is finding use is as a scout and as TP support (intended role) for BS fleets (eg; Rokh-Scimi-Huginn-Vigil fleet). Compare it to the Bellicose, and it is clear that the Bellicose is rocketing in popularity, but probably not for TPing.

This implies that the requirements for the EAF's buffing is to exceed the Vigil. The HACs show that sig radius is a prime consideration for survivability according to Rise and Fozzie, yet when we look at EAFs it is clear that the ships were designed to fail.

The Hyena has a base of sig radius of 51, versus the Vigil at 34. That is ridiculous considering that a 3% reduction per level (15% at level 5, which not many people have) still results in a higher base sig than the Vigil anyway. I would expect that a buff of EAF's will roll that EAF bonus into the base stats (like, pls, base sig 31) and maybe replace it with an additional sig radius bonus.

Likewise, the MWD capacitor bonus is significant if you can survive using it (Hyena says no). It should be moved to an EAF bonus or rolled into the hull stats given frig 5 is a given.

So we are really left with the TP bonus and the web bonus as role bonuses. That's fine; it is what one would expect for a mini-Huginn.

Other buffing obviously needs to occur on EHP (usual fits with 3.6k is far too low, even if the sig radius is fixed), resists, and fitting (let us fit 2 x webs, 400 plate, MWD, point and at least TWO weapons!) and maybe drone bay (2 droans plocks).

The same is true of the other EAFs (though I fly them less);
the Kitsune needs a better tank and better sig
the Keres needs slight fitting tweaks and better sig
the sentinel just really needs a better tank
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2013-08-20 02:07:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3469236#post3469236

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Our balancing plan is based on numerous design discussions, intense brainstormings and has to go through the strictest review processes to be validated. But here it is.

We grab a 6-faced dice, then use the table below to act in consequence.

"Which ship should we look at next?"

1. Marauders
2. Black Ops
3. Nerf bloodknight2's Nightmare (only his, no one else).
4. Pirate ships
5. New ships
6. Tech3 cruisers
7. EAFs


Heh.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#8 - 2013-08-20 03:15:51 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
So now we are focusing on Tech2 hulls, as you noticed. We've started with HACs and Command Ships. Next on the line are Marauders (we have started looking at them). EAS and Black Ops are high in priority as well and will most likely come after that, depending on bandwidth. Once that's done, we'll look at other Tech2 hulls if need be. But we also want to fix some of the Tech2 manufacturers, like Roden Shipyards, which aren't great at all (mix of hybrids and missiles, bleargh).


See you for winter, Ned Stark!
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#9 - 2013-08-20 03:43:15 UTC
Pannax Ni wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Nothing yet. Supposedly on the short list for rebalancing.


Have they hinted at an AF Balance aswell?

AF rebalance was actually the first rebalance they have done. Remember the old retribution with one medium slot? So i suppose that they won't change much on them till the first rebalance iteration of all ships is finished. Next iteration maybe.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#10 - 2013-08-20 03:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
Trinkets friend wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
So now we are focusing on Tech2 hulls, as you noticed. We've started with HACs and Command Ships. Next on the line are Marauders (we have started looking at them). EAS and Black Ops are high in priority as well and will most likely come after that, depending on bandwidth. Once that's done, we'll look at other Tech2 hulls if need be. But we also want to fix some of the Tech2 manufacturers, like Roden Shipyards, which aren't great at all (mix of hybrids and missiles, bleargh).


See you for winter, Ned Stark!


Who's Ned?
Ned's dead baby. Ned's dead..... Big smile

Edit:

The only real way to specialize EAF vs. their T1 counterparts without over buffing per se would be to strip weapon hardpoints and make them ONLY ewar boats.

For example, the Hyena has a 3-4-3 slot layout. You could:

Increase lock range to match Vigil.
Increase EHP.
Reduce signature radius to mid to high 30s.
Give it a version of the interceptor/AF MWD penalty reduction bonus. That was the original intention after all.
Change the slot layout to 1-6-3. Give the ship a covert ops cloak role bonus.

Since most T1 frigates got buffed to a 10 slot layout the argument could be made for the addition of an additional slot. In that case - make it a low on the above example.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#11 - 2013-08-20 14:44:32 UTC
Interceptors have sig radius bonus which makes them better at pointing larger ships.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#12 - 2013-08-23 14:44:40 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Interceptors have sig radius bonus which makes them better at pointing larger ships.


Not only larger ships. They also survive longer under missile attack due to their small signature. But yes, they are subpar with regards to most situations especially if you talk about DPS.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#13 - 2013-08-23 15:29:15 UTC
Meditril wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Interceptors have sig radius bonus which makes them better at pointing larger ships.


Not only larger ships. They also survive longer under missile attack due to their small signature. But yes, they are subpar with regards to most situations especially if you talk about DPS.


Lock ranges are unforgivable. No T2 resists to speak of. Fitting issues. Cap issues. Cough cough *Raptor* Cough cough.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2013-08-28 04:06:04 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:

Kitsune - disappearing fast, soon to be extinct. Not sure why but ECM soft nerfs don't account for it.


IDK about others but we moved rapidly away from ECMs towards RSDs. AFAIK the logic is mainly that they are not probability based, not racial linked, and are similarly able to remove combatants from the fray.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#15 - 2013-08-28 11:22:35 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:

Kitsune - disappearing fast, soon to be extinct. Not sure why but ECM soft nerfs don't account for it.


IDK about others but we moved rapidly away from ECMs towards RSDs. AFAIK the logic is mainly that they are not probability based, not racial linked, and are similarly able to remove combatants from the fray.


Indeed. Part of it is that damps and neuts are still useful to fill spare slots on your combat ships where ECM on an unbonused hull is pretty pointless.

Also celestis <3