Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Realized my original post was quite bad.

Issue: Today's probing mechanic makes it close to impossible for any sniping BS to operate without getting probed down before it has even started locking anything.

-99% of all fights take place around gates, stations, POS's etc.
- Scanning a known area takes ~5 sec

Combine those 2 and you have an impossible environment for a sniper to operate in.

Average BS needs ~13 sec align. More if it's coming out of warp and need to slow down before turning. You also have some time when you exit warp where you are unable to control your ship. Locking a target takes ~4-11 sec, battleship - frigs.

Missile-ships like the Typhoon, Raven and others, are even worse of, as their missiles has to reach the target before they do damage.


Before we got the probing system we have today, probing took about ~25sec to complete. Negative with that system was that it was a hit or miss. Sometimes you got a warpable result, sometimes not.
The good thing was that from the probe was dropped, you had a 25 sec window to react accordingly, if you picked it up on the scanner.


Idea:

Change the accuracy on combat probes depending on how fast you want your results to be. Also introduce a factor that will
interfere the accuracy of your results depending on close-by structures like gates, POS, stations etc.

The distance and accuracy of the warp to result should be so that you would think about maybe it would be faster to try and burn with a inty etc.

Rough numbers:

- 5 sec scan, range from target should be just outside the range of a maxed out Arazu with overheated warp disruptor. This is with a maxed out prober, skills, modules, the whole thing. This to prevent the situation we have today where a click on a button give you a instant warp to spot. (This is if you are scanning around gates etc, as they are such big structures and will give interference on your scan. If you scan out in the open, you will have no interference and a Arazu should be able to land within pointing range.)

-25 sec scan, would give you a spot that lands you right on top whatever you probed.


- Core scanner probes would be unaffected, so no change in how fast you find NPC stuff.
- Reason for making the Arazu right outside pointing range is to prevent the ISK=I WIN situation. During the unprobable snipers the argument against it was that no matter how much ISK they spent on their setups, it should not make them unprobable. Same applies here, no matter how much ISK someone will throw at their prober would not mean a insta spot to point anyone within ~5 sec.

It sounds like you want to penalise good teamwork...

The "expensive probe ship = insta-scan" issue is not an issue at all since even a T1 scan ship can find you in one cycle if it knows you are at a particular gate.

In 0.0 you can use defensive bubbles to prevent people warping right on top of you. If you find that sniping is too dangerous in empire space because you just get scanned down, then try adjusting your tactics. I suggest using a MJD.

Gimping combat scan probes is an unnecessary change.

The issue is the ability to scan someones spot in 5 sec. That has nothing to do with teamwork.
You simply deploy your probes around a gate. Wait for anything to pop out of warp, hit scan, and you have the result.

You seem to miss the point. There is no other tactic then dump the sniper and fly something else. The sniper simply have no place in today's EVE with current gamemechanics. MJD will not change that.

If it does, I am very interested to hear your suggestion. Cause how it is today, you will be pointed before the MJD have even spooled up.

And your just confirming the issue by stating that you only need a simple T1 scan ship. No extra skills needed, nothing special.

And it's not gimping the scan probes. It's adjusting them. You would still be able to land on top of anyone if you wish, but it would take you 20 sec longer then it does today. You would still be able to scan safes within 5 sec and get within pointing range, but you would need a dedicated tackling ship.

Proper sniping is dead with current probetime.

200km Rails... LOL!!!

Problem is that it just doesn't give you enough time to do anything.

- It 's quicker to scan and warp to a point then it is to realign and warp out.

- And MJD.... It's great for blobs, as it's impossible for tacklers to be really effective when the only thing that hold you there is a 2 point scram.

Looking at it from the small gang perspective none of them are any good options.

- Any region gate you jump into, or a hostile system for that matter, has a minimum of 8 probes deployed around gates/stations whatever. Just waiting for someone to stick their neck out.

- MJD will do nothing if you are a small gang. Lets say you have 5-6 snipers. 3 tacklers and 50% of you firepower is tackled before you can warp out.

And now with pre-arranged patterns for your probes...

What's the point with 200km guns, 200km missile systems and whatnot, when the only counter you need is a cheap T1 frig and basic scanning skills?

If a large blob comes rolling through, and you are vastly outnumbered there is basically nothing you can do. Maybe pick of a slow straggler. But that's it.
In the old days you could at least take potshots at them, even with a missile ship, before they could get a fix on your position.

It's like everyone is happy and comfy with rolling around in blobs with RR and close/medium range setups and not have to worry about meeting anyone set up for range, since they would be scanned down in 5 sec anyway.

I'm not assuming.

I'm simply using my directional scanner and every time I do, there are combat scanner probes popping up.

I have seen this proposal a few times. It looks ok at first sight if you have never participated or done "proper" sniping, >150km.

But it's easily circumvented.

You just have your prober sit 400km of the celestial the fight is happening on, or the gate your are camping, together with tackler or cloaked interdictors. As soon as anything pops out of warp, hit scan, 6 sec later you are all in warp on top of whatever was unfortunate to pop their head out.

If the prober got skills and know what he is doing, he can set up his directional scan for a set range. He can then just sit there and hit scan on it, as soon as something pops up on his directional scanner, he then activates his scanning probes.
He will now get the result from the probes as the target comes out of warp. The target will not even have finished his warp animation.

Doing it that way you suddenly made it suicidal for anyone all the way down to a cruiser to come in and have a look at range.

And before anyone claims otherwise. I've been there, done that. It works flawlessly.

I'm just worried that it will never be fixed.

It's been like this since they changed the probing mechanics 3-4 years ago. And since then it's just been made easier and easier for people to scan other players.

It's frustrating to know how it worked, and the options you had back then. Versus how it is now.

Caldari: What is the point of all the range bonuses on missiles, rails, EW, when you cant really use it to your advantage. It's all countered by a single T1 frig with some scan probes. And in 5 sec....