Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I love all the nullsec ratters complaining "But then it's not safe!"
Aliventi I'm also stunned by the amount of good posting you're doing in an awful thread. +1 to you, sir.

I defy you to show me one way, without local to to prevent yourself from being killed by a cloaked ship with a cyno + hot drop. It doesnt matter how prepared you are, it doesnt matter if youre aligned out because he could just bump you before he hits the cyno, it doesnt matter if youre with a fleet, there is literally no way to avoid being killed no matter how prepared you are.

That does not make a skillful game, that makes a random one; you might as well be watching a movie because thats about how much interaction you have with it.

But that isnt even the worst part; the worst part is that if they see that you've devised some crazy sort of counter to their plan, they just dont engage and it costs them nothing; they never have to commit to the fight, and it costs them nothing.

Nobody wants safe space, but nobody wants completely unavoidable, no warning death either and thats what covert ops hot dropping with no local is. Unavoidable. No warning. Death

The giant local spike might clue you in on it being time to get the hell out, and not wait for that bomber gang to tackle you.



Every Covops Cloak capable ship other than the Stealth bomber suffers from a 5 second delay before it can start locking a target.

Quite simply, leave before they can tackle you.




HS Income needs a nerf, Nullsec individual income needs a buff (and an actually useful means of taxation).

Make it worth the risk by modifying the rewards.

Please read the thread or at least the OP before commenting . . . we're talking about what if local didnt exist; if local didnt exist, how would you avoid that gank? the short answer is you couldnt, you would die.


Again, please read first and comment second. The scenario we were discussing was with a cyno; you dont need to lock to launch a cyno and you dont need to launch to put up a bubble. The scenario we were discussing was bump-cyno-bridge-bubble-dead . . . all in less than 3 seconds well maybe not the dead part, but by the time you reach bubble its too late.

We already have wormhole space. It is the something in between solution.

Being all for removing local, I have to drop one counterargument to it. The Reward. Risk vs. Reward is often mentioned when talking about nullsec and cloaky camping, without noticing that this ratio is somewhat skewered.

To put it straight, if you were to nuke local people wouldn't rat in nullsec, they'd all move to hisec and run L4s. Why? Because the rewards are approximately the same for a fraction of the risk.

The reason for that lies in how ratting income is generated - through rat bounties. Regardless of inflation, your rewards will always remain constant. They will remain constant regardless of how many people rat. Due to prices on the market now we run into a situation where nullsec residents come up with setups that can blitz anomalies for optimal income. Belts remain untouched and ratting in a pvp-fit ship is a suboptimal, low-profit way of doing it. You can do it but if you want to earn money, why not run L4s in hisec? That you can do with a pve fit, safely. Get an out of corp/alliance alt to avoid wardecs and you're golden.

Before local is looked at, we need to take a look at one major thing: incentive for people to undock. A player needs to be willing to risk his ship in local-less environment with possible hostiles, because the reward will be worth it. There are faction/deadspace/officer goods, of course but the market for them is small and just making them more abundant would crash the price - something that shouldn't happen.

"W-Space does it!" yes, because w-space income is based on exported commodities. Price of said commodities changes, unlike rat bounties - it's also pretty high, making for a good incentive to run difficult anomalies in groups.

Before removing local:

- Change income from pure rat bounty to a mix of rat bounties and unique regional commodities. Increase "profit per rat".
- Change anomalies to enforce running higher-end with a group to make belts more profitable to run.

Then remove local.

This is disingenuous.

I honestly don't know if you actually believe this, or you simply don't understand how changes would cross affect other details.

I will help you, by pointing out what will possibly seem obvious when you look back on it.
The only detail needed is to add in a method to hunt cloaked vessels that requires effort, which I explained above.

First, your comments that I specifically address here:


Here is something that is difficult for many to grasp, but is an important detail that those hunting will not have an advantage because of local being missing.

The advantage will always belong to whoever has sov, simply because the intel channels and patrols supplying them will be a huge advantage.

Those hunting in hostile territory will be on their own, and with no local to artificially tell them where everyone is, chances are they will have no idea.
They can, of course, guess, or do research to learn where people usually hang out, but unless someone spies for them and tips them where to look, they will be effectively blind.

Local is never the friend of PvE. PvE has a far more obvious advantage trading it in for an intel channel while the hunters are blind.

And hot dropping??

Especially after trimming the BS from it, hot dropping is a desperate tactic, and one to avoid except when absolutely necessary.

Hot Dropping: Bridging is intended to bypass reinforced blockades and travel time. Here, it has been fine tuned to avoid advertising the presence of a fleet to the free intel tool as well by delaying the easily recognizable population spike till the last possible moment. The intention is to deny the warning local provides, although it still reports the presence of the cyno boat enough to be associated with AFK Cloaking instead.
Quite simply, while PvE pilots would never resume regular activities with a hostile fleet present, they are sometimes willing to gamble over whether a cloaked vessel represents that level of threat at a given time.[/quote]
I don't really know what you want me to comment on here...
How does this have any bearing on what I was saying? WH space can't by jumped into. Null space can. If you couldn't see anyone on local, and couldn't dscan out the covops dropping it, you could have an entire fleet of bombers and blops jumped into a null system with 0 warning. This can't happen in WH space. This is one reason the lack of local matters less.
[/quote]
Noone in their right mind would ever hot drop, unless that was the only way to catch them.

And seriously, if you are not being instantly told for free about exactly who is in the system, how would you know if a roam just rushed in?
How would you know if a covert cyno went off beyond your scan range?

Considering you have no way of being instantly warned, the whole point of hot dropping vanishes.

Only a fool brings a gate equivalent onto grid, in firing range no less, of a pilot or group of pilots who are the most motivated to shoot at it.
And then add, if they kill the cyno ship BEFORE the others jump through, the others never show up at all.

Hot dropping simply is no longer justified, in this most common version referred to.

I find this thread hilarious. all the whining about getting ganked is quite lulzy. I would love to see local gone from nullsec, it would mean I could actually pvp there.

As a WHer who dives out into 0.0 frequently nothing is more dissapointing than local chat. literally the second i load grid and show up in local you all warp to poses and stare at me till I leave. just plain stupid.

Have you considered that if your worried about your ability to maintain intel on your empire that maybe your empire is too large? Most of your dumb alliances own far too much space anyways, forcing you to take care of your systems to make them more useful has been needed for a while.

Also my WH corp rarely is only concerned about 1 system/gate. I often have as many as 6 pilots out in the field doing nothing but monitoring connections while we do our work. In eve there is something called a alt, you put alt on a gate, turn sound up and BAM youll know if someone came through. quickly alt tab ( if your not using multiple monitors) and youll nkow who and what just came in. If my scouts can catch a cov ops moving through and get a name, so can you.

As far as I can see removing local will lead to more pvp, and more fights, any important targets getting ganked can lead to escalations.

Right now the only way you get killed at all in 0.0 non consensually is if you screw up or go afk somewhere you shouldnt have.

Cyno bridges cannot bring in a limitless number of ships. They can bring in lots, but not limitless. Hyperbole wont help you here. Keep your statements reasonable is my advice.



Simply removing local would likely be worse than leaving it in place and leaving cloaks alone. I prefer the status quo over simply removing local for null sec.

However, intel gathering should be something players (more accurately corporations and alliances) can work at doing without having to spend boring hours watching a gate so your buddies can have their turn ratting. Also, such intel gathering should not be a good as local is right now. So possibly tying it to system upgrades and structures and such would be one possibility.

The problem of local and its use as an intel tool is a big one and a far reaching one.

local should be tied with sov upkeep (maintenaince) costs, you either turn it on for everyone (as in low/high by the empires that own them) or it stays off

Lore wise speaking, wormholes have no gates or stations so registration of capsuleers isnt possible iirc