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procurer worth getting?
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Ned Tivianne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-08-11 13:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ned Tivianne
i have a venture at the moment and enough money for a procurer, worth getting or waiting for another ship???
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-08-11 13:57:06 UTC
Assuming you are solo mining in highsec, you would be better getting a retriever.
Valhallas
New Eden Robotics
#3 - 2013-08-11 16:57:07 UTC
Procurer comes in useful in null sec where the local belt and anomaly rats are quite hard and can take down a retriever with ease, a procurer can tank this long enough to let your drones kill the rats in many cases.

But for high sec a retriever is better. I would tend to fit some kind of tank on it to deter casual ganking. A ganker might move on to an easier target if you have some kind of tank.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-08-11 22:48:58 UTC
You can buy 2 Procurer hulls and some fittings for the price of one Retriever hull. What's the saying, don't fly what you can't afford to lose...

Though if all you can afford right now is a Procurer, go ahead and buy it. Tank it and use the increased profits from it, versus staying with the Venture, to fund a Retriever if you deice you want to take the risk of using a more expensive and more vulnerable ship for a marginally better profit than what the Procurer can provide.
CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#5 - 2013-08-12 02:09:55 UTC
The first and fast answer is ''go for the Retriever" Wich is the best ship for solo mining, however the tanking capabilities of the procurer are something to be considered if you mine in those systems where suicide ganking is a common thing.

Procurer tank is far superior to whatever you can try to do to tank a Retriever.
Spergie Scrublord
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-08-12 02:11:43 UTC
Klymer wrote:
You can buy 2 Procurer hulls and some fittings for the price of one Retriever hull. What's the saying, don't fly what you can't afford to lose...

Though if all you can afford right now is a Procurer, go ahead and buy it. Tank it and use the increased profits from it, versus staying with the Venture, to fund a Retriever if you deice you want to take the risk of using a more expensive and more vulnerable ship for a marginally better profit than what the Procurer can provide.



Wise words. Listen to this man. Plus, you can use a Procurer to run level 4 missions with.

No, you can't really. I'm kidding. I just thought I'd toss some content about missions in for lulz!
Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-08-12 02:17:33 UTC
I dont know about flying a 30 mill ship a catalyst can 2 volley until you've plenty of isk to replace it.

Not worth it to fly a retriver for new miners imo go procurer.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-08-12 07:23:17 UTC
Ned Tivianne wrote:
i have a venture at the moment and enough money for a procurer, worth getting or waiting for another ship???


Procurer is well worth the money and should be the go-to barge for high and low sec, because it's relatively easy to tank to the point of unprofitable gank. Essentially, an untanked Retriever will always be a viable target for those seeking soft mining barges, but tanked Procurers are usually a no-go (and may in fact turn gankers off by the simple fact of being Procurers in the first place). You sacrifice some yield and ore hold, but it's a small price to pay for the relative safety it offers.

Tldr: not only is Procurer worth it, it should be your go-to ship for High Sec.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-08-12 09:47:27 UTC
The Procurer doesn't get quite as much yield (it only has two low slots to the Retriever's three, so the Retriever can fit more mining laser upgrades), and its ore hold is a flat 12000 m3 to the Retriever's hold of up to 27500 m3, so it can't loiter quite as long, but it's a brick to the Retriever's beer can. So it's basically a question of whether you're willing to trade off a lot of survivability for doubled loiter time and moderately increased yield-over-time. Your mileage will vary.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Tydeth Gilitae
Magewright Artificers
#10 - 2013-08-13 02:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tydeth Gilitae
I went from Venture to Procurer because the Proc was the cheapest of the three barge hulls, and it is very good. Proc's single strip miner is still leagues better than the mining lasers a Venture fields, and you're going from 5k ore hold to 12k, with cargo and drone bays also being higher in the Proc.

High-sec Gankers do for the most part leave the tanked barge alone, especially if the pilot doesn't antagonize the combatant to give them enough reason to bring the necessary friends. I've seen posts by multiple self-professed gankers in which they admit to leaving Procurers and Skiffs alone on account of their massive shield tanks and their lack of support for afk mining. Even searching "Procurer" on that New Order blog only turns up kills in which it is the attacking ship.

You'll still want to keep the Venture, however. Its built-in free warp stabilizers without the penalty of the actual module will make it better for hurried retreats from lower security space if you ninja-mine for better ore, in addition to its smaller size and faster align-to-warp time. Ventures are also the only mining ship with a gas bonus. Plus if you ninja around in null or wormholes, and get caught and killed, the Venture is dirt cheap.

Edit: Here's a potential fit for the proc that should allow you to keep it much longer in High-sec.

Procurer - Tank

High:
- Strip Miner / Ice Harvester (depending on which resource you're going for at the time)
Mid:
- Adaptive Invulnerability Field
- EM Ward Field
- Thermic Dissipation Field
- Kinetic Deflection Field
Low:
- The best meta level Damage Control Unit you can easily afford
- Reinforced Bulkheads / Power Diagnostic System (RBH takes advantage of the massive hull resists of the DCU, while PDS gives a bit more shield HP to utilize those mid modules a bit more. Up to you which you go for)
Rigs:
- Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
- Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
- Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

For the mid-slots, there is no defensive difference between Tech I and "Limited" so do some market research on Eve Central and Eve Market Data and go for the cheapest one. While both grant you the same tank, the Limited is easier to fit, so if you can find Limited version cheaper than Tech I, go for it.

Keep the rigs at Tech I.

The EM ward will shore up the common major weakness of shield tanks, which the Procurer relies on. Thermic and kinetic are because one of the most popular ganking ships is the Gallente Catalyst, fielding its Blasters to devastating effect. They're also effective against Serpentis rats, and Thermal is the other major weakness of Shield.
Red Dragon15
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-08-13 03:30:39 UTC
My experience, go with the Procurer. Better Tank, even if the Ore Hold is smaller resulting in more trips to the station. The Retty is good if you not going to tank it and just going for isk tanking, meaning trying to mine the value of the ship quickly before the gankers come at you. I cannot tell you the number of times I have been mining and seen several rettys being ganked by small ganking squads, then they look at my ship and just warp off. The major reason for this is that the Procurer isn't cost effective for them to gank. Even when I use a fit for max yield, it still has around 65k EFT....

1x MSM II

2x Adaptive Invul IIs
1x EM Ward Amp II
1x Thermal Dis Amp II

2x MLU II

3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Cost: @45m isk

Cap Stable with 65+ on all shield resists and 14k Shields....its a tough nut too crack.

Too hard for Catalyst and too inexpensive for Nados. They normally just pass me by and go out looking for more rettys or macks.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-13 13:20:37 UTC
Also don't forget that if a ganker does decide to have a go at your ship, you can overheat your hardeners and make the Procurer even more of a brick. Every extra second the ganker needs to keep at it is one more second for CONCORD to arrive.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#13 - 2013-08-13 19:59:02 UTC
Fret Thiesant wrote:
I dont know about flying a 30 mill ship a catalyst can 2 volley until you've plenty of isk to replace it.

Not worth it to fly a retriver for new miners imo go procurer.


Its really not worth ganking any of the ships mentioned thus far but the procurer probably wont get ganked at all.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Q 5
999 HOLDINGS LLC
#14 - 2013-08-13 21:35:57 UTC
go for the procurer, it is your safest bet and will double your income compared to The Venture do not go to low sec or null or WH with it cause you will just lose it.

use it in highsec for about a month will give you all the profit you need.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-08-14 05:40:08 UTC
Covetor: Hisec fleet mining
The covetor can generate the most output of the three, but its severely limited cargo hold means the hauling needs to be done by someone else. Otherwise all of your trips to station take a big chunk out of your mining time. When you have a fleet to mine with, there is no better option without getting into Hulks.

Retriever: Hisec solo mining
Very respectable mining output and absolutely massive ore hold means that it can get the most profit when you are both safe and alone. Limited tanking capabilities make it an easy target though. This will be your most profitable option if you're mining somewhere with few disturbances.

Procurer: Mining in dangerous territory
The procurer has the same theoretical output* as the retriever but a smaller ore hold. This means you will need to make more station runs, but thanks to its amazing ability to tank damage, you will be able to survive almost any NPC that spawns in your belt. This is the safest option.

*While on paper the retriever and procurer have the same output (2 + (2*.5) = 1 + (1*2) = 3 strip miners worth of output on both), the retriever will get more in practice. This is because the Procurer's laser draws so much ore per cycle, it is much more likely to dry up an asteroid quickly and run out before one of your mining cycles ends, causing time to be lost. While this isn't a very big issue, it is something that min/maxers (IE people who play Eve) like to take into consideration when calculating profit and output.
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#16 - 2013-08-14 11:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Trudeaux Margaret
Auduin Samson wrote:
*While on paper the retriever and procurer have the same output (2 + (2*.5) = 1 + (1*2) = 3 strip miners worth of output on both), the retriever will get more in practice. This is because the Procurer's laser draws so much ore per cycle, it is much more likely to dry up an asteroid quickly and run out before one of your mining cycles ends, causing time to be lost. While this isn't a very big issue, it is something that min/maxers (IE people who play Eve) like to take into consideration when calculating profit and output.



It means you have to use your survey scanner and that you can't AFK mine in one. Horrors!

edit: just so I won't end on a snarky note, for newbie miners, how you avoid losing time: is to use the scanner to measure the amount of ore in each asteroid. Pay attention to how much ore is deposited in your hold in one complete cycle of your strip miner. So if an asteroid has 2300 units of ore in it and your strip miner is pulling out 6000 units, then you know to turn off the strip miner before it hits half cycle in order to keep waste to a minimum. Then you can move your laser to the next asteroid. It's really not that difficult.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-08-14 17:04:16 UTC
Sure, the Retriever holds far more ore and mines faster, but the Procurer is faster (so you can cherry pick the belts if you want to) and has a tank that will discourage many opportunistic gankers.
Procurer is also way cheaper.
Get the Procurer then use it to make the money for a Retriever.
MicDeath Titan
No Mans Corp
#18 - 2013-08-16 04:19:41 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJKBMxWqkg
To demonstrate the tank on a procurer.
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#19 - 2013-08-16 19:22:59 UTC
MicDeath Titan wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJKBMxWqkg
To demonstrate the tank on a procurer.



Now let's see the same test applied to a typically-tanked Retriever.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-08-16 19:49:19 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
Auduin Samson wrote:
*While on paper the retriever and procurer have the same output (2 + (2*.5) = 1 + (1*2) = 3 strip miners worth of output on both), the retriever will get more in practice. This is because the Procurer's laser draws so much ore per cycle, it is much more likely to dry up an asteroid quickly and run out before one of your mining cycles ends, causing time to be lost. While this isn't a very big issue, it is something that min/maxers (IE people who play Eve) like to take into consideration when calculating profit and output.



It means you have to use your survey scanner and that you can't AFK mine in one. Horrors!


Absolutely true. Personally, I prefer the safety of more tank over a survey scanner, but to each his own. If you plan to stay in a safe part of hisec where you won't benefit as much from the procurer's ungodly tank though, you'll probably just jump for a retriever instead to capitalize on the bigger hold/more mining time.
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