Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Some people just can't admit that Cloaking isn't broken, peoples attitudes to it are and that Local is the problem and with it the absolutely faultless intel it provides.

Could be here some time even though Nag'o has said twice he was going never to return but just went all "AFK Cloaked" in the thread. How ironic!

Cloak turning your ship in an unicorn doesn't make sense to the game.
I was just making a differentiation of what means to be realistic and what means to make sense to tell you why it does not need to be necessarily more realistic to make sense. I don't want to talk about sciece or science fiction in this thread. I find all this stuff really cool and it does interest me but I'm focused in the game mechanics here. Being cloaked a whole day can make sense in the fiction aspect but it does not make sense in the strategic aspect of the game. It is unballanced strategically. I already made a lot of points of why it is so. If you want to adress these points or add a new one we haven't discussed yet I will gladly consider it too.

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Add a 1 unit cap consumption to that and we're now going somewhere. I will not address how this can possibly affect every single ship in the game, that is what I said before is a dev job. Covert ops are indeed a thing to consider separatelly though. I think this idea would add some purpose to the Warp Core Optimizer rigs and ship bonus to warp consumption. Maybe add those bonus to cov-ops?

Of course it makes sense in a strategic aspect, if i wait all day cloaked and somebody starts doing sites in a 20 billion isk nightmare while knowing full well that i'm in system then i'll revel in the kill and feel it was more than worth it strategically. At the end of the day you as the other player gave me that kill opportunity.

You made your points of why you feel it should be changed, but as I've been trying to 'address' the whole time, how does somebody who is cloaked indefinitely affect your gameplay?

Jesus Nag'o it that is not what I said. I said, that via actual in game experience I and others may have more knowledge of the game and that isn't something that makes you automatically wrong, but it is something to keep in mind.

Case in point your answer.

You have two pilots Joe and Bob. Joe is system A, Bob is in the adjoining system, B. Bob jumps into A. Before Bob even has a chance to load grid in system A, Joe will see him in local. Thus, Joe has a distinct advantage over Bob. It does not matter who is doing what. I have tested this many times with my main (Teckos) and my alts.

This is why guys like Nikk say ratting/mining/PVE in null is so safe. By paying attention and having the right fit and/or doing the right thing (staying aligned for example) Joe can always avoid Bob. Unless Joe messes up (is not aligned, does not have a cloak fit to his ship, etc.) or is unlucky (e.g. a rat has just warp scrambled his ship), Joe will always get away from Bob no matter what Bob does.

I have gone on roams where we've tried to catch ratters and belt rushing has never worked. Sending in a scout with combat probes has never worked. They always end up in a POS, docked, or even nowhere to be found (e.g. no station, no POS, therefore almost surely cloaked at a safe).

So, Nag'o how about we put the shoe on the other foot? We change the game mechanics so any pilot entering system will not show in local for at least 1-5 second (make it random over that interval, with the mean/median being 2.5 seconds or something to this effect)? At the same time we'll put a timer on cloaks but one where active pilots can quickly and simply keep the cloak active so active pilots can keep their cloak while active.

Edit: We can play with the actual numbers so that a hostile entering system has a roughly 25% chance of catching a ratter. How does that sound?

I'm guessing you'll hate this idea.

Edit 2: Also see Nikk's reponse. He explains why it works pretty well.

Maximus is right. This change would render currently cap stable, and even mildly cap unstable fits cap unstable in a possibly rather dramatic way. The suggested change in unacceptable because it hurts non-AFK players even harder than the AFK players...something that is directly contradictory to your stated views.

So you need to re-work your entire proposal.

Several questions in there are feel free to comment but I think it's undeniable what you want and is pretty much as laid out above.

I'd love to see how many WH Residents post these "Features and Ideas" on nerfing cloaks up you know. I'm going to take a guess at none of them because they use them and they counter them every single day. They put in effort, refine their skills and protect where they live\operate\are operating.

Now let's compare that to the Null\Low Sec pilot: Benefits from Local intel that immediately, before the incoming "hostile pilot" even sees the gate he's come through, tells the pilots in that system that someone has come in. That's a good 2-5 seconds of free reaction time.

Let's assume they don't react but stay "on target" mining\ratting\whatever. The guy that just entered is a Cov-Ops pilot, he warps to a planet cloaked and finds you in a belt. He warps in but that 100km Veldspar roid bounces him and his cloak drops. He can't cloak because of the roid and you've started to target him so he definitely cannot recloak. So he's maneuvering like crazy trying to get aligned while you send your drones in on his paper-thin tank.

Cov-Ops pilot 0-1 Ratter

Now...show me where there's no risk to a Cov-Ops pilot and why you think this needs nerfing?

I've already given you an example of how a gate camp successfully caught and killed a Prowler (Blockade Runner)...and I'm pretty damn sure that's not the only Cov-Ops that's ever been caught and killed successfully.

You're assuming every PvE player in local is a paranoid freak. That may be true to nullsec. And removing local can work and be a cool thing for nullsec. That is not true for lowsec though. There are very few big alliances in lowsec compared to null, so you are never sure if the guy entering the system is a potential foe or not.

Nag'o wrote:

It doesn't make sense because strategy games must be balanced.

This isn't a strategy game in the purest form it's an MMO:

EVElopedia wrote:

EVE is a massively multiplayer online game (MMORPG), based in a persistent world. Its theme is RPG/strategy game

Removed for possibly being a bit picky and argumentative. Apologies.