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Rule of thumb for level 4 minimums?

Author
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-08-16 12:33:40 UTC
Plenty good suggestions so far in this thread, these are my minimum requirments for running L4's.

A decent ship ( a good ship, or even a great ship is better, but not required)
Some beer
Some buddies (i like to racing corp mates thru the 2nd rooms of worlds collide, adds a bit of interest to killing red crosses)
Faction standing >5 (got an uber fleet of 3-4 faction bs's going, agent(s) hands out duo of death /facepalm)
Lazy8s
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-08-16 13:22:36 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Dear OP: there are two general rules of a thumb that you should consider:

1. Do not fly what you can't afford to lose
2. You need about 1000 dps gank/tank to do level 4 missions.

Now obviously, some L4s are easier and some are harder. For instance, blitzing The Assault is easy, as you can just skip the first two rooms and do a single group in the last room. However, doing the last room in Angel Extravaganza can be insane for an unprepared character. So let's add a third rule to the above two:

3. start doing L4 missions when you get more profit out of them than out of doing L3s with whatever ship you're using for those.

Overall, forget about SNI and god knows what else people are throwing around. Nowadays, you can do missions in a badly tanked sniper in most cases. However, for them to be profitable, you want as much damage as you can get.

Now, I see you're in Amarr space, have Amarr BS 5 and missile skills T2, so I'll suggest something completely insane for you:

[Armageddon, pve]
5x Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
2x E500 Prototype Energy Vampire

100mn Afterburner
2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Damage Control II or Armor EM Hardener II (I prefer DC because of the extra hull buffer, but Hardener is more effective for tanking)
Large Armor Repairer II

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
2x Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Curator I x5
Garde I x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Stick those Vampires on a nearby enemy and you'll be cap stable as long as your AB is off. This fit should give you somewhere between 600 and 900 dps depending on your skill and more than enough tank to do all L4s. Now you can decide which way to go - if you want to keep training Amarr ships (great for Amarr space), you can train lasers and eventually switch to a laser boat or if you like missiles more, you can train Caldari Battleships and get a Raven / CNR instead. You can even train for drones, which will improve this ship and grab a Rattlesnake eventually.

Tldr: Just because something is cookie-cutter, it's not the only option. Look at your skills and you might be amazed at the options you have.



This...blew my mind...

What about this? I get over 800 DPS and can run the tank solid for 30min (assuming I have a NOS target). Even if not for PvE it looks like a fun / funny PvP boat (obviously swap some stuff).

Armageddon

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field II

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

5x Garde II
Lazy8s
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-08-16 14:36:54 UTC
bloodknight2 wrote:
I saw you were missionning in amarr space and that you have amarr BS 5. Do you have any skill in gunnery? If yes, think about buying a nightmare. This ship is simply the best in amarr space <3


I can use large lasers and I have T2 small lasers. A nightmare is my dream ship but the cost...holy crap.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-08-16 14:47:33 UTC
Lazy8s wrote:
bloodknight2 wrote:
I saw you were missionning in amarr space and that you have amarr BS 5. Do you have any skill in gunnery? If yes, think about buying a nightmare. This ship is simply the best in amarr space <3


I can use large lasers and I have T2 small lasers. A nightmare is my dream ship but the cost...holy crap.


I thought the same when I got my Nightmare, i umm'd and ahh'd and put it off for way too long and even though it was a big price hike from the Navpoc i was enjoying previously, the performance increase was most definately worth it, it'll pay for itself very quickly.
Lazy8s
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-08-16 15:53:33 UTC
Hell ***** wrote:
Lazy8s wrote:
bloodknight2 wrote:
I saw you were missionning in amarr space and that you have amarr BS 5. Do you have any skill in gunnery? If yes, think about buying a nightmare. This ship is simply the best in amarr space <3


I can use large lasers and I have T2 small lasers. A nightmare is my dream ship but the cost...holy crap.


I thought the same when I got my Nightmare, i umm'd and ahh'd and put it off for way too long and even though it was a big price hike from the Navpoc i was enjoying previously, the performance increase was most definately worth it, it'll pay for itself very quickly.


That sure is tempting. Looks like I could have the same tank as the raven but even more DPS with just T1 lasers. It wouldn't even require faction modules to beat out the Raven. On the other hand I only have a few hundred mil isk to my name so its hard to justify buying 2 PLEX just for a mission boat. How much isk/hr do you make with it?
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-08-16 16:03:35 UTC
Lazy8s wrote:
Hell ***** wrote:
Lazy8s wrote:
bloodknight2 wrote:
I saw you were missionning in amarr space and that you have amarr BS 5. Do you have any skill in gunnery? If yes, think about buying a nightmare. This ship is simply the best in amarr space <3


I can use large lasers and I have T2 small lasers. A nightmare is my dream ship but the cost...holy crap.


I thought the same when I got my Nightmare, i umm'd and ahh'd and put it off for way too long and even though it was a big price hike from the Navpoc i was enjoying previously, the performance increase was most definately worth it, it'll pay for itself very quickly.


That sure is tempting. Looks like I could have the same tank as the raven but even more DPS with just T1 lasers. It wouldn't even require faction modules to beat out the Raven. On the other hand I only have a few hundred mil isk to my name so its hard to justify buying 2 PLEX just for a mission boat. How much isk/hr do you make with it?


Thats one of the nightmares strengths, it functions really well even with just basic equipment, but really comes alive with faction goodies :)

I haven't ran missions for a while now, domestic circumstances limit my Eve time to mainly checking skill queue's :(.
Isk per hour, not sure but I could easily complete blood/sansha vengeance within 1 wallet tick including travel time. Blood raider version gets cleared before i even have to fire the shield booster :)

The last time I seriously ran missions i used my faction standings to cherry pick endless blockades, vengeances, recons and dread pirate, oh and cant forget the blap fest gone beserk. It clears missions so fast that it'd probably hurt your isk/hr if you were to come back in salvage noctis.

I would save for it whilst your skilling for T2 large lasers, tachs first. By the time you get those bad boys your wallet will be fat enough to buy the mare.
Mike Mulder
Imperial Phoenix Legion
#27 - 2013-08-16 19:52:44 UTC
Since you already have a Raven and T2 cruise missile skills, why not just skill up Caldari Battleship? It would probably be faster than getting to T2 large pulse lasers, because for some reason to use T2 large pulse lasers you first need to have adv pulse laser spec to IV for small and medium energy turrets. A bit off topic, but I wonder why missile users can skip specializing smaller missiles before they can spec larger ones like gun users have to Sad

Anyway, If you have good drone skills, an Armageddon would work with your missile skills if you don't want to wait on your Caldari BB skills. I can use T2 light and medium drones, but not sentries, and T2 sentries would make life a lot easier. I was running L3s pretty easily in a Prophecy and bought an Armageddon for L4s (currently Amarr BB IV), which except for a few of the really tough ones, I really was never in any real danger. I probably wouldn't use a 'Geddon without good drone skills.

However, I got tired of micro managing drones and bought a Navy Apoc. I still can't use T2 pulses (training large energy turrets V right now, using meta 4 pulses) and OMG sooooo much easier in that Navy Apoc than my Armageddon.

Question for some of you more experienced L4 mission runners...why are you using a MWD instead of a MJD? I love jumping 100 km away and one shotting frigates and burning cruisers down before they even get in range to hit me. P
Nambu
Two Dogs Operations
#28 - 2013-08-16 21:12:02 UTC
You are 100% fine, in fact you are well beyond fine. You can tank L4s with 250dps no problem, and you ~can~ do them with damage DPS in the 3-400 range. Its not ideal, and you can get way better performance, but you don't ~need~ a pimped ship to do L4s. A raven with t1 named gear can do it quite easy. Its even easier now if you bother to fit a MJD which will make most of your tank not neccesary.

I still have the first raven I used in L4 missions, the only t2 gear on it was t2 BCS and t2 PDS/CPRs. The rest was named t1, vanilla drones, t1 ammo. Never had a problem (not that I use it anymore.)

Give the raven a try, if you succeed, then run in it while you train for whatever else you might want. Drone ships, lasers, whatever. Ravens are pretty simple to get started in.
Orlacc
#29 - 2013-08-18 01:26:05 UTC
In the long run, for missioning, if you can get a Nightmare or Mach depending on your skills, they pay for themselves in a relatively short time.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

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