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Where'd Incarna go?

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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#81 - 2011-11-11 20:45:58 UTC
Gank Award MC wrote:
Who?


Noting to see here, move along please!?!?

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#82 - 2011-11-12 04:16:39 UTC
Valkris Arkayne wrote:
The DREAM of Incarna was brilliant - in-station and in-ship interaction, player-crafted clothing and items, player-run establishments, an expanded market/economy for station items, new gameplay options such as minigames, multi-player board rooms, and real-time status maps from other sectors. Properly implemented, Incarna could have brought in ten to hundreds of thousands of new players from the sim-crowd (the largest cut of players worldwide).

The DELIVERY of Incarna was a horrinble mess - only one room, no multi-player, no new gameplay, no new crafting, items for sale on the NEX store, a second currency system, code that overheated computers... and to top it all off, CCP released items that cost $40 to $70!! A monacle for $70, and no where to show it off !? Most micro-trans games price their items reasonably at $2 - $15... so the $70 monacle showed just how far off base CCP was from their players.

The backlash from both FiS and WiS players was astounding. FiS players were rightly annoyed that the space game had been neglected with zero payoff, and the WiS players were annoyed that 5 years of development resulted in a one-room cell, when lesser companies have created entire games in less time. As a result, subscriptions took a hard dive.

Since then, CCP has declared that they're going to re-focus on the space game. I don't see how ship trails, ship spinning, and new nebulae qualify as 'content', but that's where we are at the moment.

My activities in EVE will soon be little more than reading the newsletter and waiting for Incarna to come back... at which time I'll re-subscribe.


I'd like to point out to you that the RMTs were just supposed to be part of Incarna. There were other features, such as corp owned bars, that were due for release. I feel as if the community's response to the Monocle did dampen the prospects of said corp owned bars and stores from coming out.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#83 - 2011-11-12 07:22:47 UTC
I think it had more to do with, what do we want to have players define fun in stations.... it may have drawn a blank stare at the time and discated for something that need to be sat down and discussed later which is what would have happened if the protests wherent so loud. So that portion of instations has been pushed back, IMO for the better of WiS as well as it gives them time to hammer all the bugs out in the world while the content stews in the background. Then when its go time it should be a smooth lego together some patching and done.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Aston Bradley
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2011-11-12 07:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Aston Bradley
Incarna is still a good idea, if you deliver the finished product.

What they promissed :

- Walking around stations

- In station mini-games

- Social areas such as bars, shops ect...

- Avatar interactions

- 4 CQs



What incarna actually delivered :

- 1 CQ, with just a couch to sit on and bugs all over the place.

Only one question remains in my mind : How could CCP expect incarna to be a succes? If you promise to give a house and end-up giving just a bathroom, what else can you expect?

Point being : Incarna was a big mistake, WiS is still a good idea. They should just deliver the complete WiS pack when it's ready.

[i]FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried!

Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again![/i]
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#85 - 2011-11-12 08:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Acac Sunflyier
Frankly, I see a lot of hate towards one thing being directed at other aspects of Incarna. Are people mad that WiS was happening? Or was it the Micro Transactions? I didn't like the micro transactions but I was looking forward to walking on the big promenade.


Edit: Do people not remember that the Minmitar CQ was just the first wave, and that they had more coming out. Except then the news letter got leaked. And then stuff didn't happen for a while.
Aston Bradley
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2011-11-12 08:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Aston Bradley
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Frankly, I see a lot of hate towards one thing being directed at other aspects of Incarna. Are people mad that WiS was happening? Or was it the Micro Transactions? I didn't like the micro transactions but I was looking forward to walking on the big promenade.


Edit: Do people not remember that the Minmitar CQ was just the first wave, and that they had more coming out. Except then the news letter got leaked. And then stuff didn't happen for a while.


Keep in mind that we are talking about a project that was work in progress for years. They have been spending ressources on it since 2008. In 2011, we get 1 CQ with the "promise" that more will come later. And we all know that CCP arn't very good with promises.

So yeah, after 3 years of waiting, one buggy CQ is a very poor job in my book. Incarna was a big fail, make no mistake. That's why people complained. Let's just hope they give us a bit more of FiS untill they get WiS right next time.

I think that deep inside, we all hoped for incarna to be the original WiS idea proposed in 2008. But after so much time and ressources, this is a very sad picture.

[i]FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried!

Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again![/i]
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#87 - 2011-11-12 13:09:52 UTC
Aston Bradley wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Frankly, I see a lot of hate towards one thing being directed at other aspects of Incarna. Are people mad that WiS was happening? Or was it the Micro Transactions? I didn't like the micro transactions but I was looking forward to walking on the big promenade.


Edit: Do people not remember that the Minmitar CQ was just the first wave, and that they had more coming out. Except then the news letter got leaked. And then stuff didn't happen for a while.


Keep in mind that we are talking about a project that was work in progress for years. They have been spending ressources on it since 2008. In 2011, we get 1 CQ with the "promise" that more will come later. And we all know that CCP arn't very good with promises.

So yeah, after 3 years of waiting, one buggy CQ is a very poor job in my book. Incarna was a big fail, make no mistake. That's why people complained. Let's just hope they give us a bit more of FiS untill they get WiS right next time.

I think that deep inside, we all hoped for incarna to be the original WiS idea proposed in 2008. But after so much time and ressources, this is a very sad picture.


Yes but the other CQs are on SiSi. We've seen the station promenade in demos at fan fest.
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#88 - 2011-11-12 13:27:37 UTC
I don't understand why CCP has such a massive 3D modelling lead time... I remember making levels for unreal tournament back in 2001 (in unreal editor) and could get a decent sized level out in about a day or 2...

is the carbon platform really that difficult to model stuff for? or is it just a case of... the coding and concept design is the most difficult part...

any thoughts?
Dr Grey
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2011-11-12 13:41:43 UTC
The lack of a full length mirror in my SuperCap is simply gamebreaking !

This and a new range of high quality Boots out of the price range of the Peons should and must take priority over nonsense such a rebalancing blasters or changes to log off mechanics

CCP I demand swift and decisive action
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#90 - 2011-11-12 14:00:21 UTC
Aston Bradley wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Frankly, I see a lot of hate towards one thing being directed at other aspects of Incarna. Are people mad that WiS was happening? Or was it the Micro Transactions? I didn't like the micro transactions but I was looking forward to walking on the big promenade.


Edit: Do people not remember that the Minmitar CQ was just the first wave, and that they had more coming out. Except then the news letter got leaked. And then stuff didn't happen for a while.


Keep in mind that we are talking about a project that was work in progress for years. They have been spending ressources on it since 2008. In 2011, we get 1 CQ with the "promise" that more will come later. And we all know that CCP arn't very good with promises.

So yeah, after 3 years of waiting, one buggy CQ is a very poor job in my book. Incarna was a big fail, make no mistake. That's why people complained. Let's just hope they give us a bit more of FiS untill they get WiS right next time.

I think that deep inside, we all hoped for incarna to be the original WiS idea proposed in 2008. But after so much time and ressources, this is a very sad picture.

Even further back than then, it was back in Nov 2006 where Torfi stated at the time that it was half way to completion. Which means work had begun on it well before that.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Aston Bradley
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2011-11-12 17:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Aston Bradley
Acac Sunflyier wrote:


Yes but the other CQs are on SiSi. We've seen the station promenade in demos at fan fest.


Let me put it this way.

Basicly, CCP promised a full furnished house, with a pool table, bar ect... Right now, they come with incarna : Look, you have have a room. You can... sit and.... look at your TV screen, and no windows.

We will lock you in that small room and you won't be able to get out or see a single friend for months.... Have tones of fun on Incarna Lol

But don't worry, in just a few months you can have the same room, with different colors on the walls and.... that's about it....

But i guess we should be super gratefull to CCP... not Twisted

As for the station promenade demo. Well... We had a demo such as this one back in 2008 didn't we ? Don't get your hopes up Roll

I am sorry if i sound a bit sceptical here, but do check the history of WiS and how we got to incarna, and i think you'll see the rather ugly picture.

[i]FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried!

Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again![/i]
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#92 - 2011-11-12 19:08:58 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Frankly, I see a lot of hate towards one thing being directed at other aspects of Incarna. Are people mad that WiS was happening? Or was it the Micro Transactions? I didn't like the micro transactions but I was looking forward to walking on the big promenade.


Edit: Do people not remember that the Minmitar CQ was just the first wave, and that they had more coming out. Except then the news letter got leaked. And then stuff didn't happen for a while.

People were not only angry at the MT fiasco, it was the fact that incarna was being released at the expense of, you know, the game we all play... what's it called? Oh yeah, Eve. While at some point in the future it may well be that people will view WiS as a core aspect of the game, for now it's just something they're looking to add; the people who play eve, for the most part, view it as something less important than the actual game itself.

Sure there are people who want incarna to be finished asap, they may even match the number of people who flat out hate the idea and never want to see it implemented, but compared to the anti-WiS crowd, COMBINED with the people who are OK with it, as long as it doesn't detract from the space aspect of the game (which it had been, as all things space related were being neglected in favour of incarna crap), the pro-incarna people are a small minority.

And that's not even getting into the micro transaction/leaked newsletter fiasco.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2011-11-12 20:55:29 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Uhm what happened to Incarna? They're already discussing the Winter expansion and we haven't even left our CQ. What's up with that?


Edit: mainly I want to know where the rotunda is with all the bars and shops we were supposed to be able to open? Did that get tossed and I missed it?


It went something like this: The economy....bad. Funding...hard to get. CCP had a loan due sometime in October. In order to pay for it they fired 20% of their workforce probably as a requirement to establish more funding. That work force was the WoD development team. WoD was being developed on the backs of Eve players in the guise of added features rolled up into what was popularly known as "Incarna". Because there is no WoD there is, now, no Incarna.

Believe me when I say this: Eve players, while influential, were probably not the determining factor if you look at Incarna development as a subset to WoD development.

Don't ban me, bro!
Aquila Draco
#94 - 2011-11-12 21:11:19 UTC
Aston Bradley wrote:
Incarna is still a good idea, if you deliver the finished product.

What they promissed :

- Walking around stations

- In station mini-games

- Social areas such as bars, shops ect...

- Avatar interactions

- 4 CQs



What incarna actually delivered :

- 1 CQ, with just a couch to sit on and bugs all over the place.

Only one question remains in my mind : How could CCP expect incarna to be a succes? If you promise to give a house and end-up giving just a bathroom, what else can you expect?

Point being : Incarna was a big mistake, WiS is still a good idea. They should just deliver the complete WiS pack when it's ready.


MINI-GAME ---> Kill the bugs... Lol
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#95 - 2011-11-12 21:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Heimdallofasgard wrote:
I don't understand why CCP has such a massive 3D modelling lead time... I remember making levels for unreal tournament back in 2001 (in unreal editor) and could get a decent sized level out in about a day or 2...

is the carbon platform really that difficult to model stuff for? or is it just a case of... the coding and concept design is the most difficult part...

any thoughts?



You're thinking dust 514, they're making stuff with in house developed engine using various resources from elsewhere such as Eve itself and the Enlighten engine is significantly a bit more difficult to work with in having to adjust material reactions to light and hopefully the output is something that looks very nice at the cost of not needing the worlds best computer to make it happen.

Also I suspect your map make has alot of premade art assests for you to use, Dust and Incarna have to build all of thiers from scrap nothing. So this takes alot of time interating between art directors, lead art directors, art teams, technical artists then the game dvelopers and thier leads, followed by QA testing. Overall art is expensive for a visually heavy game such as incarna or first person shooters.

It takes a long time to make stuff that works well on a developer machine which is more than capable of running eve with 50mb shadowmaps per ship at 5600x4k something resolutions with 32x AA work on a crappy laptop at decent levels. This is the most difficult aspect for technical artist right behind creating new potentials.

Thing as it was mentioned earlier its impossibel to release stuff when its done in an mmo envrionment, though its always a bad idea when to release stuff when its not done enough. Incarna was at that cross roads with captains quaters being done enough but rest of the statiosn wherent there yet. However I have to also suspect that carbonization was going though her final burn phase as well so there wasnt much else to present in an expansion. It could have almost been an 'empty' expansion with no major new features if they delayed incarna the additional 6 months it needed.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.