EVE General Discussion

Then remove that skill altogether. While I understand the concept beneath it I don't get why a broker would accept to buy something for you while you don't even have the money to pay for it.

I had though about making the rest to cover never higher then the profits that could be made from sell orders, although someone could simply put a sell order for a very high price and it would be circumvented. The alternative would be to use the sell orders average value.

EDIT: The player would get into the negatives, and the sell orders would be "Locked" from being canceled or sold for lower then the average value.

Even in real stock trading - depending on how you do it - there is the possibility to have orders that are not fully covered. In one tool I used you set up orders and further orders would be cancelled (after some have been executed) should your margin no longer cover them.

Further, I'd assume the skill to be quite important for the Eve economy. If all traders can only set up buy orders in maximum of their current liquidity, there just would be far less of these orders, making it far harder for a seller to sell his stock.

So what you're proposing is to make live harder for many in order to protect some few from a lesson they might be better off learning in Eve than elsewhere.

I don't think that it changes that much in the economy that you place buy orders for higher then you can afford other then pissing off sellers that are trying to sell their stuff. Plus it just inflates the real money value placed in buy orders without any real effects on the economy.

You are also comparing an highly regulated market against one with absolutely no rules or regulations.

I don't think that it would make my life harder to wait to have the money to buy something to actually buy it rather then seeing my buy order disappearing with no notices of it in a bunch of hundreds of buy orders then trying to find which one got cancelled by comparing my inventory to my expected inventory.

Btw, something that I started seeing:

- Place buy order with no margin available at 20% price from sell to buy
- Wait until someone place his sell order at the same price
- Rinse, repeat until you brought the market down
- Buy stuff
- Wait until the market steps back up
- Sell stuff
- ...
- Profits.

because the 'YOU' in this scenario is a burner alt.

There, said it without resorting to sounding like a 5 year old. If I can do it, you can too Peers!

I am not placing orders for something I can not afford. I place just lots of orders and am sure that not all of them will be executed at the same time. All of them at the same time would be higher than my liq, most of them at the same time I could cover. If I place less orders I get less orders executed reducing my trading activity. If all traders place less orders there are far less buy orders meaning you will always have to wait till someone buys your sell order as there will simply not be enough buy orders for you to sell at a reasonable price.

If I understand your proposal you're welcome to try. In general you'll notice that a) you'll be only the highest bidder at 20% from sell order price in very illiquid assets b) you'll hardly ever get an executed buy order. Together this leads to: not enough profits.

I dare to say that your scheme would only work if margin trading skill was removed.

Tell that to banks and stock traders all over the world.

There is no way, that I can see, for CCP to alter the margin trading mechanic without screwing the vast majority of traders who are using it as intended to leverage their money and skills efficiently.

I was under the impression that with real life margin trading you actually had to cover the bill if your sales didn't end up covering your buys when it came due one way or the other. Either through sales of other stock, often at unfavorable prices, or through loss of other assets.

Seems like that isn't always the case with the eve version, if you lack the isk the buy order just doesn't complete, you don't have to cover it from any sort of other assets. Unless I'm misunderstanding how this whole thing works.

If it worked like the real life version at some point the buy order would be sold to and you would have to own up to the loss, potentially by putting your wallet in the negative. Now obviously there are all sorts of work arounds to this and a whole lot of problems as to why that solution wouldn't work. Namely that there isn't a good way to get your wallet positive again once it goes negative, and that a negative walleted alt could simply be biomassed. Even if you blocked the biomassing of a negative wallet character you could still just not use that alt, or at most dire stop using that account (not like trading alts take much training and by the time you killed 3 alts the account would probably pay for itself.) Sadly there just isn't a way to link accounts so that other assets get seized to pay for the margin trading if it goes bust.

Scam = Fraud, it holds a similar meaning. The word scam is more associated with schemes.

So you could say: The ponzi scheme is a scam.
But you would say: That person that did that ponzi scheme committed a fraud.

EDIT: I'm no master of english, but that's what I understood from a quick dictionary search.
EDIT2: Please disregard: Definitions don't seem to be the same across dictionaries. But both seem to be quite related in meaning.

That would be the best thing to do and also the easiest one.

RL trading on margin has very little to do with what EVE's Margin Trade skill does.

RL trading on margin is trading (as in actually buying securities) with borrowed money. That's why there are margin calls, because you're reaching the limit of your credit line.
IRL, you can place an order, and the broker doesn't have to check how much money you have in your account* until the order fills, no skill needed.

*A good broker may check as the clearing price approaches your order, so he can give you a heads up if you're short of funds, but that's just customer service. The brokerage house may also cover your shortfall temporarily (as a loan), again as a customer service.