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Cloaking device with fuel

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Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-08-14 15:47:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
Barbara Nichole wrote:
"You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin."

and you may never know... in fact the amount time a nuclear sub can stay submerged is highly classified.

".....being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot."

I have to disagree again with this statement... having personally lost exposed cloaked ships. It's not 100% if you are actively using the cloak in an engagement. As for the "AFK" again they are no threat.



This topic has now officially moved from game spaceship cloaking mechanic to real military technology information clearance.

The thing with being afk cloaked is NOT that if it is a threat or not. It is if the afk player is playing the game or not. The cloak shouldn't be a game resource for safely being afk while you do grocer, is at work, is doing sex or whatever... you're not playing the game. If certain character is not being played why is it even logged?
So you lost a ship while cloaked but at least you were playing the game. Is what you're saying that we should reward people who do not actively play the game by giving them more safety than people who does have?

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#62 - 2013-08-14 16:03:33 UTC
Please, I invite you to respond.
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
You're talking like the idea is to prevent people from cloaking, wich is not. The idea is to limit cloak use so it is not safe to be indefinitely afk with it.
I think it's a cool idea that could add some depth to the mechanic.

I personally don't like jumping to a stationless system with a single person on it and keep wondering if the other player is afk or not. I want to know if I can play some cat and mouse game or if I need to move on to another system for some action.
You say cloaked is nerfed already but how much of an advantage is to be able to do anything you want away from the game to only occasionally check the screen to see if there's some fish on the net? Where's the strategy on that?
Cloaking is incredibly dumbed down the way it is. A little iteration wouldn't hurt.

Ok, here is a glossed over detail, that I must point out.

If you limit the amount of time a cloaked pilot can exist, you destroy cloaked threat capability.

Point 1
Pilots interested in PvE ONLY risk exposure with a cloaked presence under the belief that they may be able to do so safely.
Now, obviously pilots prepared to encounter the hostile can fit, and plan strategies that make sense. They are playing the game. Sadly, they are the minority, and will not benefit from your idea.
Other pilots, who are purely gambling that the hostile is AFK, only undock because they think there is no threat. They are killed because if they are wrong, and the hostile is present, they screwed up by being wrong about that threat.

Point 2
What changes if cloaking is limited?
No pilot will be tolerated to undock with a hostile present, more so than ever. Losses look bad on a kill board, and corps often want them to look successful. Sure, some corps and pilots will still risk an obviously active cloaker, but not nearly as much as before.
The frustrated gambler, who before was willing to believe the hostile might really be AFK safely enough to risk exposure? No way! They know any pilot present is using a limited quantity of fuel, and must either leave or be hunted down within a fixed time limit.

Why take a risk, when you know they HAVE to stop cloaking after X amount of time? Just wait for them to leave, one way or another.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#63 - 2013-08-14 16:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Nag'o wrote:
The thing with being afk cloaked is NOT that if it is a threat or not. It is if the afk player is playing the game or not. The cloak shouldn't be a game resource for safely being afk while you do grocer, is at work, is doing sex or whatever... you're not playing the game. If certain character is not being played why is it even logged?
So you lost a ship while cloaked but at least you were playing the game. Is what you're saying that we should reward people who do not actively play the game by giving them more safety than people who does have?


So what is your point exactly? You don't know if the pilot in Local is cloaked and scouting you out or is doing his grocery shopping and is AFK? How does this actually affect you? Does it really bug you that much that some people might just need to cloak up and go AFK because someone rang the door bell or, as I once experienced, had to take my GF to Accident and Emergency.

Cloaking doesn't need to change, the players attitude to cloakers does IMHO.

EDIT: Also how can an AFK Player be playing the game? He can't if he was AFK but how would you know he's AFK? He might be sitting there quite happily on his observation point above a gate watching the traffic go by...or he might have gone to the pub. Bottom line is that you cannot distinguish between an AFK player and a player who is actively watching the screen and making notes about what he sees.

EDIT 2: So how does an AFK player get rewarded might I ask? You can't do anything if you are AFK so you can't earn ISK unless it's Market Trading in which case you will want to shut down that players market orders until he logs in again? AFK means just that: Away from Keyboard, i.e. not interacting, threatening, earning etc but they maybe AFKBW (That's AFK But Watching)...bottom line is still the same in both points of EDIT and EDIT 2:

You DO NOT know if a player is AFK and can never know and the only reason you know that someone is in the system with you is because of Local.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#64 - 2013-08-14 16:18:08 UTC

You are 100% safe while cloaked.... this is a sad thing, and we should try to limit the times players can be 100% safe.

As such, lets have a time limit of 4 hours... after 4 hours, if your ship is automatically decloaked and cannot recloak for 30 minutes. This will introduce them to danger. Likewise, of course, we must implement this for Stations. After 4 hours, your ejected into space from a station and cannot redock for 30 minutes. We should also implement this for POS's too. If you are in a POS for 4 hours, it's shields will go down for 30 minutes. Unfortunately, now we have the ability of people bouncing POS's... uhg...


On a serious note: AFK Cloakers are the players means to inflict "potential danger" into a system that has perfect intel on whom is present. There are really two issues at hand here, and NONE of them have to do with the cloaking mechanic.

A.) Instant Omniscient Intel: Local chat is too perfect, and currently tips the scale so far towards the defender that, unless someone is just oblivious or extraordinarily unlucky, they aren't in danger when operating in nullsec (which is supposed to be some of the most dangerous space). You know when a hostile enters system, and you know with enough warning you should be able to get safe 99.9% of the time!

B.) Cyno Portals: Cloaked ships are very easy to deal with, and if you can't you are a newb. However, the pragmatically unscoutable, unthrottled force they can drop on top of you by lighting a cyno is very difficult to prepare for. Hot drop mechanics have great uses for catching the skittish, turning tables of a fight, etc... but it is a very unbalanced mechanic that should be addressed.

AFK Cloakers, and cloaking mechanics are generally solidly implemented. They can't hurt you, you can't hurt them, etc.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-08-14 16:34:24 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

So what is your point exactly? You don't know if the pilot in Local is cloaked and scouting you out or is doing his grocery shopping and is AFK? How does this actually affect you? Does it really bug you that much that some people might just need to cloak up and go AFK because someone rang the door bell or, as I once experienced, had to take my GF to Accident and Emergency.


If you have an emegency hit ALT+SHIFT+Q and press Enter.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2013-08-14 16:37:34 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Ok, here is a glossed over detail, that I must point out.

If you limit the amount of time a cloaked pilot can exist, you destroy cloaked threat capability.

Point 1
Pilots interested in PvE ONLY risk exposure with a cloaked presence under the belief that they may be able to do so safely.
Now, obviously pilots prepared to encounter the hostile can fit, and plan strategies that make sense. They are playing the game. Sadly, they are the minority, and will not benefit from your idea.
Other pilots, who are purely gambling that the hostile is AFK, only undock because they think there is no threat. They are killed because if they are wrong, and the hostile is present, they screwed up by being wrong about that threat.

Point 2
What changes if cloaking is limited?
No pilot will be tolerated to undock with a hostile present, more so than ever. Losses look bad on a kill board, and corps often want them to look successful. Sure, some corps and pilots will still risk an obviously active cloaker, but not nearly as much as before.
The frustrated gambler, who before was willing to believe the hostile might really be AFK safely enough to risk exposure? No way! They know any pilot present is using a limited quantity of fuel, and must either leave or be hunted down within a fixed time limit.

Why take a risk, when you know they HAVE to stop cloaking after X amount of time? Just wait for them to leave, one way or another.


The point I made is that cloak could be a much more interesting mechanic if it had more strategy and less gambling, no matter if you're playing PVP or PVE.


Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#67 - 2013-08-14 16:54:03 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Ok, here is a glossed over detail, that I must point out.

If you limit the amount of time a cloaked pilot can exist, you destroy cloaked threat capability.

Point 1
Pilots interested in PvE ONLY risk exposure with a cloaked presence under the belief that they may be able to do so safely.
Now, obviously pilots prepared to encounter the hostile can fit, and plan strategies that make sense. They are playing the game. Sadly, they are the minority, and will not benefit from your idea.
Other pilots, who are purely gambling that the hostile is AFK, only undock because they think there is no threat. They are killed because if they are wrong, and the hostile is present, they screwed up by being wrong about that threat.

Point 2
What changes if cloaking is limited?
No pilot will be tolerated to undock with a hostile present, more so than ever. Losses look bad on a kill board, and corps often want them to look successful. Sure, some corps and pilots will still risk an obviously active cloaker, but not nearly as much as before.
The frustrated gambler, who before was willing to believe the hostile might really be AFK safely enough to risk exposure? No way! They know any pilot present is using a limited quantity of fuel, and must either leave or be hunted down within a fixed time limit.

Why take a risk, when you know they HAVE to stop cloaking after X amount of time? Just wait for them to leave, one way or another.


The point I made is that cloak could be a much more interesting mechanic if it had more strategy and less gambling, no matter if you're playing PVP or PVE.

Being interesting does not justify unbalancing the game.

As a miner, what little risk I had due to possible AFK cloaking would vanish.
I would know for certain that any hostile pilot had to be active, and there goes the uncertainty.

It would be too easy, and therefore insisted upon by many alliances, to wait out any hostiles.

And when my risk vanishes like that, so do the rewards. The point of null being profitable is the difficulty involved. If the difficulty doesn't involve being shot at, the devs simply limit the possible rewards to compensate, like they already did with ice.

This is destructive to null, and unwise for that reason.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-08-14 17:26:35 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Nag'o wrote:

The point I made is that cloak could be a much more interesting mechanic if it had more strategy and less gambling, no matter if you're playing PVP or PVE.

Being interesting does not justify unbalancing the game.

As a miner, what little risk I had due to possible AFK cloaking would vanish.
I would know for certain that any hostile pilot had to be active, and there goes the uncertainty.

It would be too easy, and therefore insisted upon by many alliances, to wait out any hostiles.

And when my risk vanishes like that, so do the rewards. The point of null being profitable is the difficulty involved. If the difficulty doesn't involve being shot at, the devs simply limit the possible rewards to compensate, like they already did with ice.

This is destructive to null, and unwise for that reason.


If you're worried about balance you must think of cloaking as a whole, not specificaly as a tool for locking down systems. You have a lot of other tools available for locking down systems. Not even being a nullsec player I can cite at least one: the map counters. Watch the number of jumps or the numbers of pilot in space that the map shows and you can tell if there is someone there or not. Of course, it is easier just letting an afk alt scarecrowing the miners away but that is such a no-brainer.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-08-14 17:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
duplicate post

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#70 - 2013-08-14 17:46:56 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Nag'o wrote:

The point I made is that cloak could be a much more interesting mechanic if it had more strategy and less gambling, no matter if you're playing PVP or PVE.

Being interesting does not justify unbalancing the game.

As a miner, what little risk I had due to possible AFK cloaking would vanish.
I would know for certain that any hostile pilot had to be active, and there goes the uncertainty.

It would be too easy, and therefore insisted upon by many alliances, to wait out any hostiles.

And when my risk vanishes like that, so do the rewards. The point of null being profitable is the difficulty involved. If the difficulty doesn't involve being shot at, the devs simply limit the possible rewards to compensate, like they already did with ice.

This is destructive to null, and unwise for that reason.


If you're worried about balance you must think of cloaking as a whole, not specificaly as a tool for locking down systems. You have a lot of other tools available for locking down systems. Not even being a nullsec player I can cite at least one: the map counters. Watch the number of jumps or the numbers of pilot in space that the map shows and you can tell if there is someone there or not. Of course, it is easier just letting an afk alt scarecrowing the miners away but that is such a no-brainer.

Cloaking cannot lock down anything.

Choices made by players over whether the risk versus the rewards are responsible for that, and when the risk from cloaking becomes more limited, the choice to avoid it becomes the default more than ever.

As to map info, that is another topic. Yes, it hands out free intel, and probably more than makes sense. But at least it requires some effort to use, even if it is not much. I would also change many aspects about this, simply to create uncertainty.
(No hourly numbers, just daily. A good hunter should make an effort to learn the rest on their own)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2013-08-14 18:18:37 UTC
Nag'o wrote:


EVE is so full of horseshit dramaqueens that you can't possibly even BEGIN to consider what COULD be a good idea because it fiddles with a 10 year old bad game mechanic that you exploit.
The fuel idea is good. The idea of a somewhat powered cloaking device is the only thing that can prevent it from being active 24/7. Being cloaked 24/7 is just not a good thing when you want player interaction. Let's say the fuel last for 2 hours. How can this be a bad thing? You can facepalm the funny clown in my pants if that's all you have for an answer.


For God's sake, a whiney butt like you complaining that another person is a drama queen.

Fuel is a horrible idea as cloaks are not the real problem.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-08-14 18:27:39 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

Cloaking cannot lock down anything.

Choices made by players over whether the risk versus the rewards are responsible for that, and when the risk from cloaking becomes more limited, the choice to avoid it becomes the default more than ever.

As to map info, that is another topic. Yes, it hands out free intel, and probably more than makes sense. But at least it requires some effort to use, even if it is not much. I would also change many aspects about this, simply to create uncertainty.
(No hourly numbers, just daily. A good hunter should make an effort to learn the rest on their own)


The risk for the defender will still exist. Cloaking will not be disabled, it will only be limited. The difference is if you want to hunt in a hostile system you will also have the risk of not being able to cloak indefinitely. You're raiding a system, why should you be able to stay there safely?
The miner you want to scare docked? Simple. Disable cloak and save fuel. Now you're playing a game.
'But Nag'o, the miner can go afk and I can't.' If that is HIS station them the privilege should be justified... and if he goes afk he will not know what's happening on his system so there is some risk involved.

Again, I'm not a nullsec player. This is just an overall impression. I think AFK cloaking is bad, not specifically for the nullsec miner, but as a game practice overall.



Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-08-14 18:31:19 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

For God's sake, a whiney butt like you complaining that another person is a drama queen.

Fuel is a horrible idea as cloaks are not the real problem.


Why is it a horrible idea? Write something not mentioned in this thread already or GTFO.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#74 - 2013-08-14 18:47:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Nag'o wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

Cloaking cannot lock down anything.

Choices made by players over whether the risk versus the rewards are responsible for that, and when the risk from cloaking becomes more limited, the choice to avoid it becomes the default more than ever.

As to map info, that is another topic. Yes, it hands out free intel, and probably more than makes sense. But at least it requires some effort to use, even if it is not much. I would also change many aspects about this, simply to create uncertainty.
(No hourly numbers, just daily. A good hunter should make an effort to learn the rest on their own)


The risk for the defender will still exist. Cloaking will not be disabled, it will only be limited. The difference is if you want to hunt in a hostile system you will also have the risk of not being able to cloak indefinitely. You're raiding a system, why should you be able to stay there safely?
The miner you want to scare docked? Simple. Disable cloak and save fuel. Now you're playing a game.
'But Nag'o, the miner can go afk and I can't.' If that is HIS station them the privilege should be justified... and if he goes afk he will not know what's happening on his system so there is some risk involved.

Again, I'm not a nullsec player. This is just an overall impression. I think AFK cloaking is bad, not specifically for the nullsec miner, but as a game practice overall.


Just an FYI @Nag'o that Nikk IS a miner and I AM a Cov-Ops pilot and have been for a number of years...and yes my Corp has lost Cov-Ops (a Prowler actually) to a lucky and skilled Gate Camp that managed to get it between Invul Cloak and Cov-Ops cloak (that's about 1-2 secs).

You're getting both sides of the coin with this discussion so when you talk about that miner to Nikk thinking that his a Cov-Ops pilot he isn't but I AM.

So when I'm cloaked I'm not playing the game...really? When I'm scouting you out in your Null Anom I'm not playing the game because you can't see me? Does it make you feel a little less safe? Good! So it should cos you're in Null not Hi-Sec!

I'm a Cov-Ops pilot who trained a lot of training time to be proficient in that skill set and practised while running the risks between the Invul Cloak on session change\entering system and getting to engage my Cloak Module...in a ship that has bugger-all tanking ability and even less offensive capability.

Please tell me where I am 100% safe in that? Can I ask do you fly Cov-Ops at all? I'm guessing not as you are so damn determined to nerf it into the ground.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2013-08-14 18:56:16 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Just an FYI @Nag'o that Nikk IS a miner and I AM a Cov-Ops pilot and have been for a number of years...and yes my Corp has lost Cov-Ops (a Prowler actually) to a lucky and skilled Gate Camp that managed to get it between Invul Cloak and Cov-Ops cloak (that's about 1-2 secs).

You're getting both sides of the coin with this discussion so when you talk about that miner to Nikk thinking that his a Cov-Ops pilot he isn't but I AM.

So when I'm cloaked I'm not playing the game...really? When I'm scouting you out in your Null Anom I'm not playing the game because you can't see me? Does it make you feel a little less safe? Good! So it should cos you're in Null not Hi-Sec!

I'm a Cov-Ops pilot who trained a lot of training time to be proficient in that skill set and practised while running the risks between the Invul Cloak on session change\entering system and getting to engage my Cloak Module...in a ship that has bugger-all tanking ability and even less offensive capability.

Please tell me where I am 100% safe in that? Can I ask do you fly Cov-Ops at all? I'm guessing not as you are so damn determined to nerf it into the ground.


I'm talking about AFK cloaking dude, not simply cloaking. Cloaking is great. What is not great is someone being able to cloak his ship in space and just leave it there while not playing the game.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#76 - 2013-08-14 18:59:41 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
I'm talking about AFK cloaking dude, not simply cloaking. Cloaking is great. What is not great is someone being able to cloak his ship in space and just leave it there while not playing the game.


And as previously said: You do not know if a player is AFK and can never know and the only reason you know that someone is in the system with you is because of Local. If you nerf cloaks for AFK Players you nerf them for all Cov-Ops\Cloak using people so you are in fact affecting me, AFK or not.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-08-14 19:00:28 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
I'm talking about AFK cloaking dude, not simply cloaking. Cloaking is great. What is not great is someone being able to cloak his ship in space and just leave it there while not playing the game.


So it's people who log in but don't DO anything that you have an issue with, I see. Going back to a very basic question, how exactly is someone who's not doing anything, who can not interact with you and who you cannot interact with, causing an issue for you?

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

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Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#78 - 2013-08-14 19:05:55 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

Cloaking cannot lock down anything.

Choices made by players over whether the risk versus the rewards are responsible for that, and when the risk from cloaking becomes more limited, the choice to avoid it becomes the default more than ever.

As to map info, that is another topic. Yes, it hands out free intel, and probably more than makes sense. But at least it requires some effort to use, even if it is not much. I would also change many aspects about this, simply to create uncertainty.
(No hourly numbers, just daily. A good hunter should make an effort to learn the rest on their own)


The risk for the defender will still exist. Cloaking will not be disabled, it will only be limited. The difference is if you want to hunt in a hostile system you will also have the risk of not being able to cloak indefinitely. You're raiding a system, why should you be able to stay there safely?
The miner you want to scare docked? Simple. Disable cloak and save fuel. Now you're playing a game.
'But Nag'o, the miner can go afk and I can't.' If that is HIS station them the privilege should be justified... and if he goes afk he will not know what's happening on his system so there is some risk involved.

Again, I'm not a nullsec player. This is just an overall impression. I think AFK cloaking is bad, not specifically for the nullsec miner, but as a game practice overall.


Just an FYI @Nag'o that Nikk IS a miner and I AM a Cov-Ops pilot and have been for a number of years...and yes my Corp has lost Cov-Ops (a Prowler actually) to a lucky and skilled Gate Camp that managed to get it between Invul Cloak and Cov-Ops cloak (that's about 1-2 secs).

You're getting both sides of the coin with this discussion so when you talk about that miner to Nikk thinking that his a Cov-Ops pilot he isn't but I AM.

So when I'm cloaked I'm not playing the game...really? When I'm scouting you out in your Null Anom I'm not playing the game because you can't see me? Does it make you feel a little less safe? Good! So it should cos you're in Null not Hi-Sec!

I'm a Cov-Ops pilot who trained a lot of training time to be proficient in that skill set and practised while running the risks between the Invul Cloak on session change\entering system and getting to engage my Cloak Module...in a ship that has bugger-all tanking ability and even less offensive capability.

Please tell me where I am 100% safe in that? Can I ask do you fly Cov-Ops at all? I'm guessing not as you are so damn determined to nerf it into the ground.

I must add to this myself.

As a defender, I point out my risk is manageable to the point where PvP in a sov system is effectively consensual up until the point a hostile sets up a presence.
They cannot catch a PvE pilot unless that pilot makes a bad choice.

No single PvE pilot ever was killed in their home system, except through pilot error.

They either made a mistake about another pilot being active, and undocked in an unprepared ship...

OR

They failed to prepare by aligning to a safe spot, and hitting warp when the hostile enters the system.

All the cloaked pilot EVER did was take advantage of an opportunity, one handed to them by a mistake on a silver platter.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Janna Sway
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#79 - 2013-08-14 19:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
Nag'o wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin.

As to scouting strategy, this makes it ineffective for any meaningful use. It creates stability in a game intended to encourage chaos.

Noone wants to play anything called Fields of Peace, where you watch crops grow and paint dry.

If you want a balanced way to handle local and cloaking, read the links in my signature.

Dropping the amount of time you can stay cloaked, especially when you leave already overpowered PvE defenses in place, does bad things to game balance.

Ask yourself this:

If you can operate aligned, and use local to get away from hostiles 100% of the time with this minimal preparation, what risk is left for you?

The only effect you are achieving with cloaking fuel, is an end to the stalemate created when they refuse to otherwise leave PvE systems.

This dramatically kills the remaining risk.

We already lost null sec ice from unlimited, to very limited belts like the ore is in.
All because the miners, like me, have no serious risk of being hunted and destroyed by a hostile.

How bad do you want our rewards to be?

Nag'o wrote:
[quote=Nikk Narrel]
You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin.

As to scouting strategy, this makes it ineffective for any meaningful use. It creates stability in a game intended to encourage chaos.

Noone wants to play anything called Fields of Peace, where you watch crops grow and paint dry.

If you want a balanced way to handle local and cloaking, read the links in my signature.

Dropping the amount of time you can stay cloaked, especially when you leave already overpowered PvE defenses in place, does bad things to game balance.

Ask yourself this:

If you can operate aligned, and use local to get away from hostiles 100% of the time with this minimal preparation, what risk is left for you?

The only effect you are achieving with cloaking fuel, is an end to the stalemate created when they refuse to otherwise leave PvE systems.

This dramatically kills the remaining risk.

We already lost null sec ice from unlimited, to very limited belts like the ore is in.
All because the miners, like me, have no serious risk of being hunted and destroyed by a hostile.

How bad do you want our rewards to be?


Our biggest reward must be an remarkable game experience. That said, the purpose of adding a restraint to cloak is exactly removing one game aspect that ils like watching paint dry. It's not about killing the risk to the other pilots in the system, it's about adding risk to the cloaked pilot. Like I said before, being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot. No mechanic in the game, except npc station docking and logging off should be like this.

Yes, a submarine can stay underwater for a long time. Nonetheless it does have to go to the surface sometime.
Players shouldn't be allowed to do things like cloaking a ship in space and then go to work or wathever that takes a long time gamewise afk with no risk of losing that ship.
Let's say the fuel or whatever mechanic is implemented allows the pilot to stay cloaked intermittently for 1 hour or maybe 2 hours. How game breaking is that for someone actively playing the game?





Referring to the marked content in the quote:

Excuse me, but is it you who pays their monthly subscription fee?
What do you care about how people decide to spend their lifetime?

I seriously think that you and all likeminded pilots out there are going way too far with all this matter about cloaking.

Eve Online has the current cloaking mechanisms and methods because Eve Online needs them.

Furthermore, did it ever come into yours and all other likeminded pilots minds that all the unpleasant feelings the cloaking causes to all of us are intentionally been put there?

You feel uncomfortable because of the cloaking puts you in a disadvantageous position?
(for I believe that this is exactly the reason for your nerf argumentations, not the afk cloaking - you just use the "afk-cloaking" as a veil to hide your intentions, which are, to simply not possibly be stalked upon, like by a cloaked Legion searching for prey.)

Well yes, thats intended by the developers and the vast majority of the community welcomes this game mechanics of cloaking, with all its goods and bads.

However, every ship can cloak in Eve, preconditioned that the ship has the highslot, CPU, and PG, so what stops you from getting one cloaking device too?

If you think that cloaking is overpowered and thus needs a nerf, well may I give you an advice you already know by yourself, but here it is:
"Buy yourself your own cloak and be overpowered."

tl;dr
Get yourself a Legion, too, once you can afford it."

Fly safe, sir. o7
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-08-14 19:13:47 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
I'm talking about AFK cloaking dude, not simply cloaking. Cloaking is great. What is not great is someone being able to cloak his ship in space and just leave it there while not playing the game.


And as previously said: You do not know if a player is AFK and can never know and the only reason you know that someone is in the system with you is because of Local. If you nerf cloaks for AFK Players you nerf them for all Cov-Ops\Cloak using people so you are in fact affecting me, AFK or not.


The problem is not knowing if someone is afk or not, the problem is an inactive character influencing the game without actions from the player.
Why does the afk player must have the upper hand?
And again, it's not a nerf to the ground. It's not a cloak disabling. It's an iteration over the mechanics. It shouldn't be a radical change for anyone other than the afk cloakers.




Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.