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Incursion Runners, prepare for the next huge attack

First post
Author
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2013-08-14 03:48:36 UTC
And no, I NOT am talking about upcoming nerf on the boosters in the command ship and command links.

I am talking about when OBG's are wiped out.

I was going to walk through the mechanics of incursion payouts, but you guys already know them, and why OGB's are so critical for optimal efficiency.

Well, I have been on Sisi trying to fit an EOS and a Claymore, with more than 3 links.
It is impossible. Both lack the CPU to do it by a wide margin, and at the same time fit a tank that will hold up, plus some DPS modules.

So that means 2 Command ships on grid, since the best fleets need minimum of 4 links, more likely 5, to operate.
You all know what that means to income/ site, as you either sacrifice DPS or add pilots.

Oh, and just imagine the fun and games when you try the Assault site that splits the squads down separate paths.

Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker.
And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.

For everyone else who uses incursions as a source to do anything else in this game, get onto Sisi, try to fit a 4 or 5 link CS, with a tank. And think carefully about the repercussions of when OGB's go bye bye.

In a PvP environment, there is no cap on efficiency quantity of ships on grid. For incursions, that is totally not the case.

Best guess, when combining the nerf to command links and the future destruction of OGB's, I am estimating a 30% drop in earning power.
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-08-14 04:40:05 UTC
Can I offer you some cheese with all of that whine?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#3 - 2013-08-14 04:40:07 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker.
And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.



The same people you are complaining about nerfing OGBs, also significantly buffed alchemy to limit goo pricing, and redistributed goo usage so that no longer is there the abilty to run a 400mil/mo tower to run a whole medium sized corps SRP. You have to own 5 towers, and pay the 2 bil in fuel, and service 5 towers now to see the income that 1 tech tower used to produce, and then you'd need to own a 6th to pay for all the extra fuel to get the same net.

That income is diminished so much that even goons are preparing to host pets renters.
---

Ongrid boosting only will be a significant improvement to the game, and far more important than whether incursion income goes up or goes down. CCP already has levers they can adjust incursion income with anyway.
ashley Eoner
#4 - 2013-08-14 05:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And no, I NOT am talking about upcoming nerf on the boosters in the command ship and command links.

I am talking about when OBG's are wiped out.

I was going to walk through the mechanics of incursion payouts, but you guys already know them, and why OGB's are so critical for optimal efficiency.

Well, I have been on Sisi trying to fit an EOS and a Claymore, with more than 3 links.
It is impossible. Both lack the CPU to do it by a wide margin, and at the same time fit a tank that will hold up, plus some DPS modules.

So that means 2 Command ships on grid, since the best fleets need minimum of 4 links, more likely 5, to operate.
You all know what that means to income/ site, as you either sacrifice DPS or add pilots.

Oh, and just imagine the fun and games when you try the Assault site that splits the squads down separate paths.

Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker.
And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.

For everyone else who uses incursions as a source to do anything else in this game, get onto Sisi, try to fit a 4 or 5 link CS, with a tank. And think carefully about the repercussions of when OGB's go bye bye.

In a PvP environment, there is no cap on efficiency quantity of ships on grid. For incursions, that is totally not the case.

Best guess, when combining the nerf to command links and the future destruction of OGB's, I am estimating a 30% drop in earning power.
Well before on grid boosting becomes a reality CCP is going to have to fix a lot of things. Everything from the code to the fact that the Roqual is a terrible on grid ship. Hell any booster ship probably wouldn't survive long on grid in a pvp fight.

As for incursions I have seen a vulture with 5 links (3x siege with rapid and interdiction skirmish) that has a 145k ehp omni tank with a resist profile of 81/94/91/84 (from it's own buffs not including another booster or mindlink). It has already sat on grid in incursions before and it takes less damage then most battleships (while having more ehp). I'm sure if you spent a little time you could do the same with the other Command ships.

So really it won't matter to incursion runners in any way other then the loss of one or two dps ships.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2013-08-14 05:17:08 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker.
And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.



The same people you are complaining about nerfing OGBs, also significantly buffed alchemy to limit goo pricing, and redistributed goo usage so that no longer is there the abilty to run a 400mil/mo tower to run a whole medium sized corps SRP. You have to own 5 towers, and pay the 2 bil in fuel, and service 5 towers now to see the income that 1 tech tower used to produce, and then you'd need to own a 6th to pay for all the extra fuel to get the same net.

That income is diminished so much that even goons are preparing to host pets renters.
---

Ongrid boosting only will be a significant improvement to the game, and far more important than whether incursion income goes up or goes down. CCP already has levers they can adjust incursion income with anyway.


Oh, Dinsdale. The sky is falling again.

This time, I've been beaten to the punch. I have nothing substantive to add to the quoted bit.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#6 - 2013-08-14 06:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
3 links are fine more are added luxury .

I am more saddened by local tank CS limited(given on purpose) to certain races only..but that's me.

Edit

Just run thru SC changes so i am not sure ..but if they don't get buffed in a way of dps and projection of the same they will be much boring to fly at least in incursions.

Nobody wants useless 500dps dragging with fleet waiting to get rat aggro once in a blue moon.

Even sleip with its highish dps is just a sad excuse for not having vindicator and that's for frigs only for rest of NPC might as well not brings guns altogether.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Nadia Gallen
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#7 - 2013-08-14 08:54:33 UTC
I was kinda of expecting a topic with some more tear filled content.

"Incursion runners, you will have no safe harbor, we will hunt you down, wherever you hide, stations, planets, astroids, wormholes. Nowhere is safe from the raging inferno that is me and my many alts. Who have all infiltrated your channels and listening to your delicious tears."

Something like that.

You are just going on about the OGB, that is rather dissappointing
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#8 - 2013-08-14 09:35:28 UTC
Your tears are delicious!
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-08-14 09:35:46 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker.
And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.

usually people say about "100+ millions/hour" when doing Incursion.
I REALLY would love to see purposes that NEED you to have such income...

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#10 - 2013-08-14 10:04:58 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

usually people say about "100+ millions/hour" when doing Incursion.
I REALLY would love to see purposes that NEED you to have such income...

LOL, an eve Socialist.

You didn't know? He that un-subs with the most ISK wins.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-08-14 10:27:09 UTC
Unfortunately this change does nothing to fix main problem: risk free isk grinding.
Nadia Gallen
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#12 - 2013-08-14 11:13:33 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Unfortunately this change does nothing to fix main problem: risk free isk grinding.


It isn't exactly risk free..

We have to be the target of so many jokes, while we make so much isk per hour, it is hard to endure the onslaughter, it is really making our time spent in eve a living hell... it's true.. the psychological pressure is immense, what if we cannot live up to the expectations, then we can no longer take the pride in being the target of such jokes.. Then we would just be... wasting our time..
Nadia Gallen
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#13 - 2013-08-14 11:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nadia Gallen
March rabbit wrote:

usually people say about "100+ millions/hour" when doing Incursion.
I REALLY would love to see purposes that NEED you to have such income...


I can tell you a small secret in this department.

Alot of the pilots there does incursion, is flying alts. And using the isk they make doing incursions, to finance their main's pvp ships be those in null/low or high sec.

Doing pvp or being the secret moneybacker for a pvp corp isnt exactly cheap.
Seraph Castillon
Andromeda Corp
#14 - 2013-08-14 12:35:26 UTC
Correct me if I'm wrong, but "on grid" != "in range of npcs and taking fire"
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#15 - 2013-08-14 12:53:33 UTC
Nadia Gallen wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

usually people say about "100+ millions/hour" when doing Incursion.
I REALLY would love to see purposes that NEED you to have such income...


I can tell you a small secret in this department.

Alot of the pilots there does incursion, is flying alts. And using the isk they make doing incursions, to finance their main's pvp ships be those in null/low or high sec.

Doing pvp or being the secret moneybacker for a pvp corp isnt exactly cheap.


Don't tell people that.
Don't you know that all of test's 10,000 chars are going to make their money in 7 systems in Aridia, and not a single one will do Incursions to finance their PvP activities?
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#16 - 2013-08-14 13:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Fozzie has stated that he doesn't like the way the Command Processor modules disproportionately affect shield and armor. I think it's a fair bet that that will be addressed before boosts come on grid. Thus, predictions based on current fits are kind of moot.

Sky is not falling. People will adapt.

Seraph Castillon wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but "on grid" != "in range of npcs and taking fire"

No, but if the CS does get aggro while at a distance, he'll be drawing the NPCs away from the fleet's DPS range. Plus, at that sort of distance he'll be otherwise useless.
Doddy
Excidium.
#17 - 2013-08-14 14:44:56 UTC
If everyone is effected it wont effect the lp sid eof earnings at all, you will earn lp slower but it will be worth more. Isk sure, a small decrease is probable if you were exploiting the OGB to begin with, but then you have benefited form it for years so i wont shed many tears.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2013-08-14 15:50:18 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker.
And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.



The same people you are complaining about nerfing OGBs, also significantly buffed alchemy to limit goo pricing, and redistributed goo usage so that no longer is there the abilty to run a 400mil/mo tower to run a whole medium sized corps SRP. You have to own 5 towers, and pay the 2 bil in fuel, and service 5 towers now to see the income that 1 tech tower used to produce, and then you'd need to own a 6th to pay for all the extra fuel to get the same net.

That income is diminished so much that even goons are preparing to host pets renters.
---

Ongrid boosting only will be a significant improvement to the game, and far more important than whether incursion income goes up or goes down. CCP already has levers they can adjust incursion income with anyway.


You just pointed out reality to the sorts of folks who like to live in their own imaginary "place". I don't see this ending well :) .
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-08-14 16:24:29 UTC
oh noes! the massive isk per hour completely safe isk grinding might be in danger. incursions are still out of whack with the rest of pve, way to much isk for no danger. if you are in a group that know what they are doing no one should lose a ship.. ever. I flown enough incursions and most of the time i fell asleep in my scimi as there was so little to do.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#20 - 2013-08-14 16:27:43 UTC
ETA for OGBs being taken off-grid..... ??? AKA probably not anytime soon. That subject has been done to death in other threads, so why would anyone trying to figure out a solution to a problem that could be well over a year away? By the time it's done, who knows what the landscape will look like?

We might as well be having a fret-fest about the hardware requirements for WIS.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

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